Why Are Most Popular DACS in Head-Fi the Couple Few, but In 2 Channel Much Wider Range of "Popular Options"

[bluecar]

I am also a very lazy guy, though setting up speakers probably does not take THAT much work but still some work,

Just get a set of Kii 3's and let the DSP + mic do the setup - no effort at all I'm with you though - mucking about with speaker placement, managing modes and acoustic treatment is too much faff......also, not having speakers/wires means more $$$$ to spend on other shiny things....

 

[RobertSM]

Just get a set of Kii 3's and let the DSP + mic do the setup - no effort at all I'm with you though - mucking about with speaker placement, managing modes and acoustic treatment is too much faff......also, not having speakers/wires means more $$$$ to spend on other shiny things....

I have a pair of Genelec's and I'm able to do the same.

 

[bagwell359]

headphones are really midfi equipment no matter how much money you dump into it.

Nah. There is detail/music in some estats & planars in systems costing 12k that just for the right room and speakers could cost $30k not including amp, dac, pre-amp, vinyl source.

You don't get the scale or physical bass, and the stage is virtual and not real but there is more than that to it.

On the cheap side used Senn 600 & used BHCs for under $800. How much of a room system do u need to battle that?

 

[chesebert]

Nah. There is detail/music in some estats & planars in systems costing 12k that just for the right room and speakers could cost $30k not including amp, dac, pre-amp, vinyl source.

You don't get the scale or physical bass, and the stage is virtual and not real but there is more than that to it.

I would agree that on a micro level headphones can be superior. However in terms of evaluation of dacs I think the lack of ability to evaluate high dynamics, scale, soundstage and entire system’s ability to suspend belief really limits the dimensions we can evaluate a dac on. That’s why in my experience it’s way easier for me to evaluate dacs on spkr vs headphones.

 

[F208Frank]

Just get a set of Kii 3's and let the DSP + mic do the setup - no effort at all I'm with you though - mucking about with speaker placement, managing modes and acoustic treatment is too much faff......also, not having speakers/wires means more $$$$ to spend on other shiny things....

I have a very biased view on this since I figured I would venture into the DSP stuff and cheat my way through not spending time messing with the room, my dealer recommended me the Anthem integrated amp made in canada with ARC, which had glowing reviews.

ARC as DSP has received quite a bit of good reviews and I thought it would help me resolve the situation of having a bad room, but I found that though it fixed some things, it also messed up some others. This was the turning point for me where I realized holy crap, I spent a good amount on speakers and integrated amp only to be putting them in a crappy room. I vastly underestimated and was naive to the fact that the room mattered that much. I always thought of this as just people online exaggerating and lying to myself to not need to do the work. My dealer is one of those old pricks who just shoves boxes on people and does not give 2 F's as long as he meets his quotas. He sold me a surround sound receiver at first when I specifically told him I wanted 2 channel for music only. His response when I mentioned I only cared for 2 channel was that I may want surround system later on for movies, I realized afterwards that he was just trying to meet quota for the NAD brand. I blindly trusted him thinking he had my interests at heart, how beautifully naive looking back. This is a dealer in NY.

I even thought about selling the whole 2 channel system, but after turning on the TV sound only, it was so trashy that I decided F it, just keep the 2 channel as "movie speakers." I have the Revel 208 speakers purchased about 7 years ago, hence my user name.

At the least, I get some nice thump thump thump from the subwoofer for movies, haha.

But yeah, I gave up in 2 channel, unless I fall into a huge sum of money and have a dedicated room, I will never go back. I also approach this with the mindset that even if that never happens, I would die fully satisfied having the pleasure and fortune to experience near TOTL headphone set ups. Last but no least, that is not just lip service, I know and understand what I am "missing out on" via speakers and am fully OK with it.

I love my headphones.

 

[bagwell359]

I would agree that on a micro level headphones can be superior. However in terms of evaluation of dacs I think the lack of ability to evaluate high dynamics, scale, soundstage and entire system’s ability to suspend belief really limits the dimensions we can evaluate a dac on. That’s why in my experience it’s way easier for me to evaluate dacs on spkr vs headphones.

Well if it's one or the other i'd go room system. But both would be better. I gave up my near SOTA room system in '16 - so there is also availability. No high end sales guy is going let me demo 3 different DACs unless the ones being looked at are his - and I don't like paying retail.

As a side note I hate multi channel the EQ is trash.

 

[chesebert]

Well if it's one or the other i'd go room system. But both would be better. I gave up my near SOTA room system in '16 - so there is also availability. No high end sales guy is going let me demo 3 different DACs unless the ones being looked at are his - and I don't like paying retail.

As a side note I hate multi channel the EQ is trash.

demoing anything more than 1 at home is almost impossible these days.

I have a very biased view on this since I figured I would venture into the DSP stuff and cheat my way through not spending time messing with the room, my dealer recommended me the Anthem integrated amp made in canada with ARC, which had glowing reviews.

ARC as DSP has received quite a bit of good reviews and I thought it would help me resolve the situation of having a bad room, but I found that though it fixed some things, it also messed up some others. This was the turning point for me where I realized holy crap, I spent a good amount on speakers and integrated amp only to be putting them in a crappy room. I vastly underestimated and was naive to the fact that the room mattered that much. I always thought of this as just people online exaggerating and lying to myself to not need to do the work. My dealer is one of those old pricks who just shoves boxes on people and does not give 2 F's as long as he meets his quotas. He sold me a surround sound receiver at first when I specifically told him I wanted 2 channel for music only. His response when I mentioned I only cared for 2 channel was that I may want surround system later on for movies, I realized afterwards that he was just trying to meet quota for the NAD brand. I blindly trusted him thinking he had my interests at heart, how beautifully naive looking back. This is a dealer in NY.

I even thought about selling the whole 2 channel system, but after turning on the TV sound only, it was so trashy that I decided F it, just keep the 2 channel as "movie speakers." I have the Revel 208 speakers purchased about 7 years ago, hence my user name.

At the least, I get some nice thump thump thump from the subwoofer for movies, haha.

But yeah, I gave up in 2 channel, unless I fall into a huge sum of money and have a dedicated room, I will never go back. I also approach this with the mindset that even if that never happens, I would die fully satisfied having the pleasure and fortune to experience near TOTL headphone set ups. Last but no least, that is not just lip service, I know and understand what I am "missing out on" via speakers and am fully OK with it.

I love my headphones.

Damn, that’s some brutal F experience. What did your dealer dump on you and how bad is your room?

 

[F208Frank]

demoing anything more than 1 at home is almost impossible these days.

Damn, that’s some brutal F experience. What did your dealer dump on you and how bad is your room?

He sold me the NAD 777, an effing surround sound receiver, I used those with my Revel 208 speakers for a good while before realizing what a bad match that was. I ended up swapping out for an Anthem STR Integrated AMP/DAC, nothing too fancy, but ignorance is bliss as I still thoroughly enjoyed the NAD777 as I did not know any better, even with a bad room, hah.

With experience and time and comparisons, then one has some reference. I think we all have our personal journeys regarding that.

 

[bagwell359]

Marketing was mentioned. It's sales folk, magazines/on-line reviews, "friends" and marketing. It's a jungle. Lots of experience and judicious selection of those factors gets you on the way. Also aging helps.

 

[chesebert]

He sold me the NAD 777, an effing surround sound receiver, I used those with my Revel 208 speakers for a good while before realizing what a bad match that was. I ended up swapping out for an Anthem STR Integrated AMP/DAC, nothing too fancy, but ignorance is bliss as I still thoroughly enjoyed the NAD777 as I did not know any better, even with a bad room, hah.

With experience and time and comparisons, then one has some reference. I think we all have our personal journeys regarding that.

Anthem is not a bad amp. How bad is your room - let me guess, too small?

 

[F208Frank]

Anthem is not a bad amp. How bad is your room - let me guess, too small?

3 walls and 1 open area on left side, bit small as well, no carpet, no effort put into any reflections etc. that kind of bad.

Hah.

 

[chesebert]

3 walls and 1 open area on left side, bit small as well, no carpet, no effort put into any reflections etc. that kind of bad.

Hah.

I heard the bigger Revel in a smallish hotel room and it wasn't all that pleasant. It's been a while so I am bit fuzzy on the experience but I do remember a bit zinging, a bit harsh, midrange was a bit recessed and a bass a bit too much. I also didn't get any illusion of disappearing speakers. Not sure if that's your experience as well.

One thing I learned about speakers is that bigger is not better.

 

[Articnoise]

He sold me the NAD 777, an effing surround sound receiver, I used those with my Revel 208 speakers for a good while before realizing what a bad match that was. I ended up swapping out for an Anthem STR Integrated AMP/DAC, nothing too fancy, but ignorance is bliss as I still thoroughly enjoyed the NAD777 as I did not know any better, even with a bad room, hah.

With experience and time and comparisons, then one has some reference. I think we all have our personal journeys regarding that.

Revel F208 is a good speaker and if you take your time to set them up properly and also match them with a good amp + your digital gear you can get excellent sound.

 

[bagwell359]

3 walls and 1 open area on left side, bit small as well, no carpet, no effort put into any reflections etc. that kind of bad.

Hah.

Well to wall carpeting is death to your treble. Non symmetric apertures of that size will always unbalance your sound stage.

Most people don't know or care about these issues - so you are ahead of the curve.

These Revels are similar to Focal And Triangle towers. Hopefully sitting off the floor, slight toe in and leaning back a bit. Tweets at ear level. Easy upgrade is the tweeter cap, get more refined and micro detail. If you are a big modifier a pair of Fountek 3.0 ribbons will transform them into being top flight. If interested I can supply details. Raal if you want to go way over the top.

 

[chesebert]

Well to wall carpeting is death to your treble. Non symmetric apertures of that size will always unbalance your sound stage.

Most people don't know or care about these issues - so you are ahead of the curve.

These Revels are similar to Focal And Triangle towers. Hopefully sitting off the floor, slight toe in and leaning back a bit. Tweets at ear level. Easy upgrade is the tweeter cap, get more refined and micro detail. If you are a big modifier a pair of Fountek 3.0 ribbons will transform them into being top flight. If interested I can supply details. Raal if you want to go way over the top.

Why do you need to add a separate capacitor for tweeter if there is already a crossover?