[ubs28]

You haven't been around for a while, but back many years ago, the HD650 was truly an end-game headphone...and listening to my HD6XX, they still keep up after all these years. Certainly not on the level of my HD800S, but they don't shame themselves either.

Is the HD 650 on the same level as the older flagships such as the SR-007 and the Orpheus 1 which existed back then?

 

[MacedonianHero]

Is the HD 650 on the same level as the older flagships such as the SR-007 and the Orpheus 1 which existed back then?

 
Sorry, I was referring to dynamic headphones (which is basically all we had back then). I own the SR-007Mk1 and no they are not on the same level. But with the Grado RS1 and K701, these were the top 3 dynamic headphones on the market.

 

[ubs28]

Sorry, I was referring to dynamic headphones (which is basically all we had back then). I own the SR-007Mk1 and no they are not on the same level. But with the Grado RS1 and K701, these were the top 3 dynamic headphones on the market.

I'm just saying, flagships has always been expensive and Sennheiser did not have the same performance target in mind when they created the HD 650 as they did with the Orpheus 1.

Didn't Sony have expensive dynamic headphones?

 

[DonS1000]

I agree, Although we do need to factor in a cost for engineering and research, the cost of materials is about the same for high end headphones. They charge what the market will bear and sone people automatically equate higher prices with higher fidelity. I once read that a luxury car say a top BMW may charge $120,000 but the cost of engineering and production is not much more than a $35,000 car.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I'm just saying, flagships has always been expensive and Sennheiser did not have the same performance target in mind when they created the HD 650 as they did with the Orpheus 1.

Didn't Sony have expensive dynamic headphones?

 
There are $50000 headphone setups now...always on the periphery of the hobby. The Orpheus 1 was discontinued (most likely due to price). But as I stated, 10 years ago, the HD650, K701 or RS-1 were considered endgame. Sony's R10 was about $2k ish and like the Orpheus, more on the periphery of this hobby compared to the well embraced flagships costing more than double today.

 

[ubs28]

There are $50000 headphone setups now...always on the periphery of the hobby. The Orpheus 1 was discontinued (most likely due to price). But as I stated, 10 years ago, the HD650, K701 or RS-1 were considered endgame. Sony's R10 was about $2k ish and like the Orpheus, more on the periphery of this hobby compared to the well embraced flagships costing more than double today.

And Sony their 2016 flagship is also selling for $2k currently.

And trust me, $4000 headphones are not overpriced because they are selling like hotcakes. I was basically on a 6 month waiting list in the end for the Focal Utopia. If a headphone was overpriced, supply would exceed demand which is not the case. They could have charged alot more money based on demand.

 

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by ubs28 /img/forum/go_quote.gif


But people think every flagship was priced the same as the HD 650 at $500, which to be honest is a mid-fi headphone. It's not that much better than the AKG K240.
 

 
Absolute nonsense.
 

$4000 headphones are not overpriced because they are selling like hotcakes.

 
Overpriced has nothing to do with how much they sell. They sell bucketloads of $12 beers at sporting events.

 

[ubs28]

Ofcourse if does. If a product is overpriced, supply exceeds the demand. This is not the case.

If af the end of the day they sell all their beer for $12, they could have asked more money and thus underpriced it at that sporting event. They cannot charge those prices at the supermarket because there would be no demand.

 

[MacedonianHero]

And Sony their 2016 flagship is also selling for $2k currently.

And trust me, $4000 headphones are not overpriced because they are selling like hotcakes. I was basically on a 6 month waiting list in the end for the Focal Utopia. If a headphone was overpriced, supply would exceed demand which is not the case. They could have charged alot more money based on demand.

Why should I trust you? Have a look at my profile.

 

[ubs28]

Why should I trust you? Have a look at my profile.

I don't see sales figures on your profile?

But it's fine if you don't believe me that I had to wait 6 months which is something I have never experienced before.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I don't see sales figures on your profile?

But it's fine if you don't believe me that I had to wait 6 months which is something I have never experienced before.

Sales figures??? Never mind.

 

[Flint]

My two cents, I believe that it is a reflection of the market.  It's what the market will bear, and we would appear to be in a booming headphone market.
 
The audio/video market has always been a place where purchasing above the mass market standard requires a fairly large premium for only an incremental improvement.  If one wants a product that has low production numbers, one will pay a premium for that item.  It's a luxury item, thereby produced on a smaller scale at a higher cost, and that fact has not changed.
 
I would postulate that the user market seems to have increased dramatically.  Twenty years ago, one would buy a premium headphone for use at home, likely for kicking back on a recliner or sofa.  Otherwise, one might own a second set of earbuds/portables for listening to a Walkman on-the-go.  Now, smartphones are everywhere and fairly high-quality sound is inherent to that shift.  Listening to music and answering calls becomes easy.  For example, Beats takes off because people are actually willing to wear headphones while moving about in public!  There are younger, wealthier clientele in front of computers for long hours with the opportunity and funds to plug in at work.  As the market increases, there are new opportunities for expansion of product lines.  The benefit is that if you can afford it, there are so many more options across the spectrum from a wider assortment of manufacturers, both large and small.  The negative, of course, is that you will need to pay a hefty price if you want that top-of-the-line headphone, because the new flagship is now a step beyond yesterday's flagship in quality and price.    

 

[ubs28]

Sales figures??? Never mind.

How else would you determine if a product is overpriced in the market? The fact that you own more equipment than me has 0.00% relationship to whether $4000 headphones are overpriced in the market.
 
It's all about supply and demand. That's the only way to see if something is overpriced or not in the market.

 

[SP Wild]

I don't think we have made major leaps since around 2010. When the the HD800/T1/D7000/LCD2 lifted the status quo. Before that grained dynamic headphones were the Hi Fidelity norm.

I thought we may have made progress in the iem front. But listening to the newer Andromeda iems, then comparing to the much more older SE846...Just a different flavour. I far much prefer the Shures on a technical level.

Dynamic drivers have made leaps and bounds. The Beyer AKIE8 mk2 dynamic IEM is one of the most musical things ever...No need for portable tube amps.

So many choices in so many price brackets today, and price doesn't equate to preferences or necessarily performance.

Let Summit Fi do its thing, you won't miss out on much (if anything at all). You'll see when the time comes.

This is the golden age, I assure you.

 

[MacedonianHero]

How else would you determine if a product is overpriced in the market? The fact that you own more equipment than me has 0.00% relationship to whether $4000 headphones are overpriced in the market.

It's all about supply and demand. That's the only way to see if something is overpriced or not in the market.

I think you missed my point.. All I said was headphones like the HD6XX hold there own still and if you looked at my profile, you'd notice I happen to own the Utopias (and some other current flagships)). I think they are worth their money too as I bought them, but it in no way says I think that headphones like the HD650 sound poorly, quitre the opposite as they still offer a great listening experience.