[Beagle]

Ofcourse if does. If a product is overpriced, supply exceeds the demand. This is not the case.

If af the end of the day they sell all their beer for $12, they could have asked more money and thus underpriced it at that sporting event. They cannot charge those prices at the supermarket because there would be no demand.

 
Let's try it another way. Overpriced = priced more than it is worth.

 

[Currawong]

I don't think we have made major leaps since around 2010. When the the HD800/T1/D7000/LCD2 lifted the status quo. Before that grained dynamic headphones were the Hi Fidelity norm.

I thought we may have made progress in the iem front. But listening to the newer Andromeda iems, then comparing to the much more older SE846...Just a different flavour. I far much prefer the Shures on a technical level.

Dynamic drivers have made leaps and bounds. The Beyer AKIE8 mk2 dynamic IEM is one of the most musical things ever...No need for portable tube amps.

So many choices in so many price brackets today, and price doesn't equate to preferences or necessarily performance.

Let Summit Fi do its thing, you won't miss out on much (if anything at all). You'll see when the time comes.

This is the golden age, I assure you.

 
Long time no see!
 
There has been a lot of progress at the low end of the IEM market. 5 years ago, $50 only got you utter rubbish. Now there are fantastic models out there.

 

[music4mhell]

 

There are $50000 headphone setups now...always on the periphery of the hobby. The Orpheus 1 was discontinued (most likely due to price). But as I stated, 10 years ago, the HD650, K701 or RS-1 were considered endgame. Sony's R10 was about $2k ish and like the Orpheus, more on the periphery of this hobby compared to the well embraced flagships costing more than double today.

And Sony their 2016 flagship is also selling for $2k currently.

And trust me, $4000 headphones are not overpriced because they are selling like hotcakes. I was basically on a 6 month waiting list in the end for the Focal Utopia. If a headphone was overpriced, supply would exceed demand which is not the case. They could have charged alot more money based on demand.

Here, you are not considering the units of Focal utopia manufactured.
I bet the manufacture units of Utopia will be far lower than Elear. And company do create push demand by limiting the supply units of expensive gears(Cars, Mobiles, Headphones).

 

[Naim.F.C]

Because people are willing to pay it, that's why. If fewer consumers were willing to pay these absurd prices, these flagships would ultimately be less expensive.
 
I made this mini rant about the Westone W80's in the OT, that I think is also somewhat pertinent to headphone flagships too.
 

  IEM's are becoming such exploitative cash cows these days. I find it absolutely absurd that they're charging this much extra, for just a few extra drivers and some minor sonic tweaks, and ultimately in essentially the same, really not that great, cheap housing. There are literally $30 earphones on Amazon that have better housing quality and materials (though not necessarily comfort). I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturing cost to Westone was orders of magnitude less than the asking price for these, and I really can't see R&D costs being exorbitant either.
 
I own the W40's, and very much like them, but really only after some minor EQ tweaking to get rid of some of the veil and overt warmth. Without the EQ, I wasn't blown away. Having said that, ironically I actually prefer the W40 (and the UM30Pro) in terms of overall sound signature to the W50 (versus vanilla W40) and also the W60 (vs EQ tweaked W40), and more ironic than that, I also preferred the sound of my original Westone 4's to the W40's, but I've since lost my 4's, and that's after I previously had them replaced when one side stopped working, so in the end I've simply stuck to the W40's as my go to.
 
Adding more inanity to it all, one of my W40's still creak ever so slightly when squeezed where the clip on piece goes, which again I find ridiculous for a (at the time) $500 pair of earphones.

It's weird that Westone seemingly keep charging more and more ludicrous sums, for what is to my subjective tastes, often worse sonic performance (reading the impressions of the W80's, even here the feedback seems somewhat mixed). I guess ultimately they have likely reached sonic limitations within this tiny housing, and adding more drivers isn't really adding objective improvements to the sound, just random subjective sonic tweaks. There's probably only so much you can squeeze through these tiny little nozzles, irrespective of however many drivers you stuff in there.
 
Even though I am a Westone product user, the company has really fallen out of my graces. I really feel like so many of these manufacturers these days are taking advantage of their consumers, using the reputations they've amassed over the years in order to get away with increasingly massively worse value proposition, with each new upper tier release.

/rant
 

 
I find the above especially appeals to some recent Audeze trends and releases as well. The quality control, comfort and reliability of some of their recent flagships is honestly utterly bewildering, verging on pathetic, especially given the prices being charged. I'm also still surprised they're still sticking to the same overall physical design too. You'd think after all their success, they could have come up with a more ergonomic and lightweight design for the newer releases.
 
.

 

[ubs28]

Here, you are not considering the units of Focal utopia manufactured.
I bet the manufacture units of Utopia will be far lower than Elear. And company do create push demand by limiting the supply units of expensive gears(Cars, Mobiles, Headphones).

Ofcourse I did. That is the supply part. If a product cannot be mass produced due to the difficulty of manufacturing, the price has to be increased to match the demand at the limited supply.

I doubt any headphone except for maybe the Orpheus 2 has limited supply on purpose like Ferrari which sells only 500 cars for example of a certain version.

I obviously would not hire people from here if I needed someone for pricing products in any field (not just headphones) since the prices would be set way below the market value.

 

[music4mhell]

  If a product cannot be mass produced due to the difficulty of manufacturing, the price has to be increased to match the demand at the limited supply.

 
This is not the case, even though the expensive products are easy to manufacture, Company purposefully make lesser units to create pseudo demand and make it more exclusive compare to other products.

 

[ubs28]

This is not the case, even though the expensive products are easy to manufacture, Company purposefully make lesser units to create pseudo demand and make it more exclusive compare to other products.

Do you have any proof of this claim? What is your source for this?

At some point Sennheiser was shipping the HD 800 S with the older HD 800 cable because they couldn't
keep up with the demand.

 

[DiamondD]

More like, they produce "limited editions" in low quantities to create value in a product. Many times, they charge more for the product, but sometimes they charge less.
 
Why are flagships expensive?...to create the impression of value and worth. The HD800 priced at $200 would be perceived as crap by consumers. As a society, we correlate high price with quality. 

 

[ubs28]

More like, they produce "limited editions" in low quantities to create value in a product. Many times, they charge more for the product, but sometimes they charge less.

Why are flagships expensive?...to create the impression of value and worth. The HD800 priced at $200 would be perceived as crap by consumers. As a society, we correlate high price with quality. 

That is not true. I have always told friends and family to get the Shure SE215 as a portable headphone which is below $100 and they are very very happy with it for many years. Seems low price doesn't relate to a crap product based on what I have experienced.

 

[DiamondD]

Well, when you buy crap it's another story. I can't even use the SE2xx they sound so bad. You can'tt price crap at high prices ...except on eBay where they buy fakes at high prices. They think it's real and high quality just because they paid lots for it. 
 
There are exceptions to everything. But generally, high prices equate to quality.

 

[ubs28]

Well, when you buy crap it's another story. I can't even use the SE2xx they sound so bad. You can'tt price crap at high prices ...except on eBay where they buy fakes at high prices. They think it's real and high quality just because they paid lots for it. 

There are exceptions to everything. But generally, high prices equate to quality.

But not for the average consumer. The Shure SE215 is excellent for them.

Their perception about $1000+ headphone is quite negative and it's something they will never go for. If the HD 800 was priced at the $200, I could have easily recommended it at friends and family and they wouldn't perceive it as a crap product if that is the signature they like.

 

[music4mhell]

 

Well, when you buy crap it's another story. I can't even use the SE2xx they sound so bad. You can'tt price crap at high prices ...except on eBay where they buy fakes at high prices. They think it's real and high quality just because they paid lots for it. 

There are exceptions to everything. But generally, high prices equate to quality.

But not for the average consumer. The Shure SE215 is excellent for them.

Their perception about $1000+ headphone is quite negative and it's something they will never go for. If the HD 800 was priced at the $200, I could have easily recommended it at friends and family and they wouldn't perceive it as a crap product if that is the signature they like.

Why you are so keen to make HD800 as $200. My black Zen earbud cost $350.
HD800, 800S, LCD3, Elear all are priced fairly IMHO. My issue is with Utopia, LCD4, Abyss etc. I don't want them to become less than $1000, but it would be great if they can make it atleast less than $2000. That's my 2 cents.

 

[ubs28]

Why you are so keen to make HD800 as $200. My black Zen earbud cost $350.
HD800, 800S, LCD3, Elear all are priced fairly IMHO. My issue is with Utopia, LCD4, Abyss etc. I don't want them to become less than $1000, but it would be great if they can make it atleast less than $2000. That's my 2 cents.

Why would they lower the price to $2000 if the demand exceeds the supply? They can probably even increase the price. At a certain point people will stop buying headphones though which is where the ceiling is.

By the way, I'm only talking about the Utopia because I have no idea how long the waiting list is for the other headphones.

 

[Rainstar]

if we are talking msrp, just buy used and search on hifishark which will go to audiogon/usaudiomart/headfi etc....
 
You can find V1 Hifiman HE-1000 for $1500 now thats what half off?
 
many HD800's are $600-800 bracket
 
I know a few used amps that used to be endgame during hd800/tesla T1/Audeze lcd3 era. that are a steal price now.
 
Its funny people complain headphone prices too high for first adopters, headphone prices come down when NEWER flagships arrive (still waiting on beyer)
the used market is full of great deals used/like new and people still complain prices too high.

 

[SP Wild]

Long time no see!

There has been a lot of progress at the low end of the IEM market. 5 years ago, $50 only got you utter rubbish. Now there are fantastic models out there.

No doubt. That's why Summit Fi has to do it's thing, so we can snap up these bargains when the technology filters down.

Pay a bit more and the SE215s, just like it is written on the packaging. Stage Sound. A dynamic driver that out resolves HD650s in the ambient tails in the upper mids making for a very neutral midrange reference.

When the Beyer T1s were introduced with the HD800, half preferred one or the other. The T1s are now cheaper. Fostex offers a virtually identical headphone at a fraction of the price of their flagship, as does others. Lots of cheaper high end offerings than ever before actually.