[EyEPoD]

perhaps this goes in the DIY forum, but in any case...

I am interested in having someone build me a KGSS amp. Ive PM'd several people that made them in the past, but have not yet recieved responses.

Can anyone make any recommendations as to who still builds them. If people are hesitant because of the time and profitability associated with building one of these today, I should say that the builder can take their time when building this amp for me, and I intend to make it profitable for them.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

1. zzz - aka Denis, is the guy who has, by FAR, the most experience building electrostatic amps, and does the best job. He is truly an engineer who tinkers with the design and has made some really nice improvements to it. He built my amp and it has performed flawlessly. (Please PM more for more info.)

2. Justin Wilson of www.headamp.com also builds the KGSS, but has only built one, and thus is quite inexperienced at it. I don't think his engineering skills are as honed as zzz's, but he has a lot of potential.

 

[Ebonyks]

With all due respect SIE, where do you get off judging justin's skills at building a KGSS? Have you ever seen the circut board? Have you ever listened to it? What do you mean he's not much of an engineer type?

 

[gpalmer]

Not having had one built myself, but having paid attention since I think I will go there one day, I would probably contact zzz myself since I think he has the most experience and his customers generally seem quite happy.

 

[teucer]

Those who haven't tried shouldn't be saying who can and who can't. Of the people who built a kgss, Justin was the only one (including zzz) who got it right the first time. It is definitely not 'over his head'. Throwing around stuff like that with zero justification won't make you any friends here.

As for his engineering skills, he builds a damn nice amp. His amps are cleaner inside than any I've seen.

Zzz knows his way around a kgss, that's for sure, but that doesn't mean nobody else does. Before you start judging the work of others, at least try to have an educated opinion.

Out of curiosity, do you have any idea what mods zzz made to your amp? I heard mention of a power supply choke, but nothing else.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Teucer,

zzz keeps his mods under hat due to the recent advent of competition. All I personally know is that he offered the addition of some choke filters in the PSU. He has done a number of other mods to the design and parts choices that improved the sound a bit. Eric343 talked to him about the mods, but he wouldn't tell ERic for the same reason. I know it sounds incredible to these ears, so I'm happy.

Also, a solder tech is different from an engineer. A solder tech is great at what is required to install components into a component. Trust me, after 10 years of troubleshooting RADAR, TACAN, IFF, AM/FM radio, and just about anything else electronics that goes into an aircraft, I know the difference between an engineer and a tech. An engineer can design, change, modify, upgrade, and overall improve upon something, or outright invent. A solder tech takes components and installs/swaps them in/out of something. Big difference.


Don't get me wrong, I owned one of Justin's Gilmore Dynamic amps. In fact it was his very first V2SE he ever made. It sounded great and his skills at soldering were second to none. It is not insulting to say he is not an engineer. While I hold more than 100 hours worth of engineering level training from more than 1.75 years of schooling the Navy gave me at more than 6 hours per day, 5 days a week, I am one of the worst solder techs in the world. It's just a statement of fact and my opinion of myself. I did put IMHO after my assessment of Justin, and am fully entitled to one.

I know what I know, and base what I think on that. I have no malice against the guy, and meant no insult by what I said. I apologize to those who took it that way, but it was not meant in a bad way. It was more of a comparison of my experience with zzz and with Justin. zzz had computer models that showed how much of an improvement the choke filters would provide, he knew what would work and what wouldn't, and has made several improvements to a circuit designed by Kevin Gilmore himself, which says more for him than anything else.

 

[jpelg]

1. Most people who have a KGSS have only seen one built by one person, so are hard-pressed to comment on others first hand.
2. Most people commenting on amps other than what they own are basing it on heresay, or impressions of other work that person has done or how they feel their transactions were handled.
3. zzz seems to have quite a bit of experience building more than one KGSS amp. And seems to have tweaked one or more parts of the circuit (maybe even finding a flaw in the design somewhere?).

Be that as it may, look at zzz's posts from less than a year and a half ago. He barely knew what a soldering iron was, even that short time ago, and was asking the most basic of questions. But he's a smart guy who took up the task, blew up a few amps in the process, and learned a hell of a lot doing it. He's one talented dude.

This is not to say he is, or will remain the only person capable of building a KGSS for money. After all there are schematics, and even boards out there, so other than the potential aforementioned circuit 'flaw', even a soldering tech could build one fairly easily with a little care.

Justin seems to have put a lot of work into this casework too. While that may not necessarily be indicative of sound, or build quality, it does show attention to aesthetics which, to me, can translate to elegance down to the internal wiring, and which I believe he does. I'd give him a shot if I was looking for an amp to be built and he said he had the time.

This is still a DIY amp based on Kevin Gilmore's (the master) design. I'd PM some people and start a dialog. I don't want to volunteer anyone, but there are several others here on this board, whose work I admire. I'm surprised tangent hasn't built one yet, or publicly acknowledged that he has. Also, maybe eric343 would build one for someone else? Voodoochile does some of the most beautiful and cleanest work I've ever seen. There are many others quite capable I'm sure.

 

[Uncledan]

Quote:

Be that as it may, look at zzz's posts from less than a year and a half ago. He barely knew what a soldering iron was, even that short time ago, and was asking the most basic of questions. But he's a smart guy who took up the task, blew up a few amps in the process, and learned a hell of a lot doing it. He's one talented dude.

Do you know how good zzz did in my school? One of the top student in my school.

 

[minya]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador Teucer, zzz keeps his mods under hat due to the recent advent of competition. All I personally know is that he offered the addition of some choke filters in the PSU. He has done a number of other mods to the design and parts choices that improved the sound a bit. Eric343 talked to him about the mods, but he wouldn't tell ERic for the same reason. I know it sounds incredible to these ears, so I'm happy.

This seems a little strange to me. The KGSS was born as a DIY amp, and it seems quite counter to the DIY spirit to keep improvements to a circuit under wraps.

Secondly, I'm sure that he could simply explain what the improvements are or what they do without giving away the exact manner in which they're introduced (thus keeping his "edge" on building them or whatever). I'd also be quite suspicious of the mods without hearing Gilmore himself approve them.

- Chris

 

[eric343]

Indeed it does...

In fact, in that same conversation he mentioned that he wasn't going to build any more KGSS-en because they don't pay well enough for the amount of work he puts into them... I don't remember what he said when I pointed out that there was no point to withholding mods then.

Though, I would caution against the idea of not "trusting" mods that "don't have Kevin's approval." Dr. Gilmore is, like all of us, human with his own tastes and preferences -- just like some of us prefer tubes to solid state and vice versa, it's possible that you might enjoy mods that he doesn't. Now, if we're talking about theoretical performance (specifically theoretical improvements), that's an entirely different can of worms...

 

[minya]

Quote:

Originally posted by eric343 Though, I would caution against the idea of not "trusting" mods that "don't have Kevin's approval." Dr. Gilmore is, like all of us, human with his own tastes and preferences -- just like some of us prefer tubes to solid state and vice versa, it's possible that you might enjoy mods that he doesn't. Now, if we're talking about theoretical performance (specifically theoretical improvements), that's an entirely different can of worms...

Yes, very true. But I still don't see how it helps anyone to withhold possible modifications of improvements to the KGSS circuit.

- Chris

 

[eric343]

I think, for that, we'll have to ask zzz himself..

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by minya Yes, very true. But I still don't see how it helps anyone to withhold possible modifications of improvements to the KGSS circuit. - Chris

IMO I don't think zzz has done anything wrong here. The original schematics done by Kevin Gilmore are available online for anyone to see. ZZZ has spent his own money and time coming up with the changes to improve upon it, and as such is more than welcome to earn some money for those changes.

I guess the only person who COULD be offended at someone doing this is Kevin Gilmore himself. No one else can get offended for him, nor cna they say zzz has done anything wrong since no rules we made clear about using and modifying the schematics and then having to publish them for all to see.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador IMO I don't think zzz has done anything wrong here. The original schematics done by Kevin Gilmore are available online for anyone to see. ZZZ has spent his own money and time coming up with the changes to improve upon it, and as such is more than welcome to earn some money for those changes. I guess the only person who COULD be offended at someone doing this is Kevin Gilmore himself. No one else can get offended for him, nor cna they say zzz has done anything wrong since no rules we made clear about using and modifying the schematics and then having to publish them for all to see.

Strictly speaking anyone can be offended, but not even Kevin Gilmore can do anything about it since the schematics are, as far as I know, in the public domain.

 

[minya]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador IMO I don't think zzz has done anything wrong here. The original schematics done by Kevin Gilmore are available online for anyone to see. ZZZ has spent his own money and time coming up with the changes to improve upon it, and as such is more than welcome to earn some money for those changes. I guess the only person who COULD be offended at someone doing this is Kevin Gilmore himself. No one else can get offended for him, nor cna they say zzz has done anything wrong since no rules we made clear about using and modifying the schematics and then having to publish them for all to see.

No, no formal "rules" were established. I would think, though, that "rules" were not necessary. Sharing seems to be the overarching rule amongst the DIY community.

- Chris