[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper994 ? I was referring to the ER4s not having "tons more detail". The thing is, they don't. They have a lot going on in the highs that's just not there. I've heard the same tracks with K1000's and R10's and the Ety extra detail just isn't real. The E4c is very detailed as universal fit IEMs go. This fake ety detail has been discussed in the past by others such as Bangraman. http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...tymotic+detail Beyond that, they have a serious lack of decay, particularly in the treble region. Decay, at least in my opinion is part of detail. For example, with the E4, when I hear a cymbal hit, it sounds like a cymbal. With the ER4s, it doesn't sound like a cymbal. You just hear this very hot "tst tst tst" noise that's not clearly identifiable.

In my view[or to my ears] that 'fake detail' is a product of the 2.5k peak , which is seemingly emphasized by the top end roll off.
Upping the highs and shaving back the 2.5k region does wonders for the mentioned lack of decay.
Coupling the above with some boost the the lower registers has provided me
with a weightier sound that is smoother and more airy without making me wince
on some of my hotter recordings.

As for the Shure E4 I have yet to make friends with the sound of these,
they just seem blast my ears with too much midrange.
One does become accustomed but going back to my Stax 404's after the E4
seems like coming of the telephone![maybe a bit of an overstatement

]
Canalphones can be frustrating at times....
Glad I have got my Etys sorted.

Setmenu

 

[Jasper994]

What tips are you using with the E4? IME the tips change the sound quite a bit.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper994 What tips are you using with the E4? IME the tips change the sound quite a bit.

At present I am using cut down Ety grey foamies as the Shure foamies did
not feel to firm in the ear.
They are cut down to about the same length as the shure's.
It seems that no matter what tips I use the basic signature remains.

Perhaps my long term use of Stax has warped my sense of correct sound.
I am beginning to wonder whether the problem is Me!
I think the stax [404] may present a sound with some reduction at certain midrange
frequencies and maybe thats what gives them their alluring sound. [to some]
That said real sounds don't bother me with any midrange excess....

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper994 ? I was referring to the ER4s not having "tons more detail". The thing is, they don't. They have a lot going on in the highs that's just not there. I've heard the same tracks with K1000's and R10's and the Ety extra detail just isn't real. The E4c is very detailed as universal fit IEMs go. This fake ety detail has been discussed in the past by others such as Bangraman. http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...tymotic+detail Beyond that, they have a serious lack of decay, particularly in the treble region. Decay, at least in my opinion is part of detail. For example, with the E4, when I hear a cymbal hit, it sounds like a cymbal. With the ER4s, it doesn't sound like a cymbal. You just hear this very hot "tst tst tst" noise that's not clearly identifiable.

from your description, I believe that you are not using the right source to drive the ER4S which is a combination of your player and amp. It takes a lot to drive the 'S' correctly. The presonus may be your weakest link and as a result your highs and lows may not sound right. I have an E5 here and I still pick the ER4P/S.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by setmenu At present I am using cut down Ety grey foamies as the Shure foamies did not feel to firm in the ear. They are cut down to about the same length as the shure's.

The internal diameter of the Ety's is different that the Shures. I did not have any luck switching the 2 products.

I can say, however, that i like both of the products (ER4P's and E4c's), and use them both, with the foamie tips, regularly.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker The internal diameter of the Ety's is different that the Shures. I did not have any luck switching the 2 products. I can say, however, that i like both of the products (ER4P's and E4c's), and use them both, with the foamie tips, regularly.

I just measured the foamies plastic tubes on both the shure and the Ety
and allowing for distortion flexibility etc found then both to be about
2.87-2.94mm, so I guess they must a nominal 3mm size.

Did you cut your ety foamie down to the same length as the Shure?

 

[immtbiker]

No, I left the Ety foamie full size. I will try the cut down method.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker No, I left the Ety foamie full size. I will try the cut down method.

In that case I would agree, full size they fit very nicely but sounded
harsh and sibilant to my ears.
Cut down they seem to fill my ear better than the shures and provide the
best sound of all the tips.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper994 the Ety extra detail just isn't real..........This fake ety detail has been discussed in the past by others such as Bangraman.

Detail is detail. It's not fake

There's brightness and there's detail, Ety has both. I suggest you listen to them again because bangraman's theories have clouded your judgement.

I have used the Ety to mix sounds together for my videos, and it's very revealing when you start layering sounds together, even two or three tracks on top of one another. It's just as revealing as my Grado 225's or my previous AKG K340's in terms of being able to separate sounds, and show any grain in the original sound. *Trust me*, it's real detail.

 

[Imyourzero]

I agree, warpdriver...I don't think there is such a thing as "fake" detail, but the Etys definitely have a pronounced treble and there is the possibility that the Etys reveal details that other phones miss, thus making them seem "hyperdetailed." Actually, that term wouldn't be too far off as it is.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver Detail is detail. It's not fake There's brightness and there's detail, Ety has both.

I couldn't have said it better. The detail is there because of the extremely fast attack and release time. The etys are extremely detailed and tight from the low end all the way to the high end. The etys do boost some of the high end, but none of what you would hear is manufactured or fake.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imyourzero I agree, warpdriver...I don't think there is such a thing as "fake" detail, but the Etys definitely have a pronounced treble and there is the possibility that the Etys reveal details that other phones miss, thus making them seem "hyperdetailed." Actually, that term wouldn't be too far off as it is.

every headphone provides emphasis to certain frequency bands. Shure earphones consistently provide 'pronounced' mids making them somewhat 'musical'. I could just as easy say that the mid frequency band of the Shures is fake, but I am smarter...

 

[Mr Iriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT every headphone provides emphasis to certain frequency bands. Shure earphones consistently provide 'pronounced' mids making them somewhat 'musical'. I could just as easy say that the mid frequency band of the Shures is fake, but I am smarter...

While I do like the etymotics detail, I also think there is something strange about it. Also the timbre in the etymotics is one of the most innacurate in quality phones. And the decay is lacking.

The thing is that providing an emphasis to certain frequency bands should not create the so called fake detail, but if the distortion adds sounds that are not at all in the recording, then that is what they call fake detail. According to graphs the etys suffer from extremely high harmonic distortion compared to the shures, and to just about any other quality phone.

 

[setmenu]

If one listens to a pair of their chosen phones hooked up to an EQ [pc or otherwise] and experiments with cutting and boosting selected tight bands
it is quite demonstrable how even relatively small changes in response
can have quite large effects on perceived timbre detail etc.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver While I do like the etymotics detail, I also think there is something strange about it. Also the timbre in the etymotics is one of the most innacurate in quality phones. And the decay is lacking. The thing is that providing an emphasis to certain frequency bands should not create the so called fake detail, but if the distortion adds sounds that are not at all in the recording, then that is what they call fake detail. According to graphs the etys suffer from extremely high harmonic distortion compared to the shures, and to just about any other quality phone.

well that graph that you are referring to from headroom showing the harmonic distortion of the ER4 has been disproven. First, it shows that the only harmonic distortion of concern is somewhere between 300 to 400 Hz (low frequency). Every other harmonic distortion is evenly spaced...just like in the shure's E3 case. Plus, that graph does not show anything special at the high end because it does not show the high end. You all look at plots and make whatever explanation you want to make and throw it out as though it showed why the etys have a boost in the highs.

By lack of decay you mean that you are just used to hearing slow cans and when a can with fast attack and release presents the sound just like it is, you as the listener complain that it does not sound right.

amazing....