[redshifter]

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The ER-4P, on the other hand, does not seem to exhibit as great an improvement when amped.

this has not been my experience with the er4s. with an amp (sr71) the er4s improves by many degrees over even a decent portable unamped source like the d777 discman.

 

[Teerawit]

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Originally Posted by darkninja67 OFF TOPIC BUT KIND OF ON TOPIC: Do Etymotics burn in like other cans? and if so, how long usually? Also, what other headphones (non IEMs) have a sound close to Etymotics? Thinking some BeyerDynamics possibly?

I didn't really notice a change after ~50 hours or so.

 

[darkninja67]

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Originally Posted by Teerawit I didn't really notice a change after ~50 hours or so.

I guess since the transducers are so small there really isn't much to actually break in. Thanks.

 

[Jasper994]

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Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT from your description, I believe that you are not using the right source to drive the ER4S which is a combination of your player and amp. It takes a lot to drive the 'S' correctly. The presonus may be your weakest link and as a result your highs and lows may not sound right. I have an E5 here and I still pick the ER4P/S.

And your rio, cali, or shuffle is a proper source?!?

And let's not forget that I am not the only person to hear this "fake" detail. Others have heard it as well, and I don't think you could question the gear they are hearing it with. What I'm refering to as fake detail is some sort of noise in the treble region that I think many perceive as added detail. Every other nuance in the music is audiable with various other cans that I've tried with those same tracks. In some cases, I could even hear more with say the E4 than I could with the ER4s. I gave an example of this in my review where on the start of Diana Krall's "A Case of You" I can much more clearly identify the sound of the piano's pedals being pushed with the E4, E5 and even the Super.Fi 5 Pro. The ER4s on the other hand didn't properly resolve it and all I could hear was a thwacking noise that was not clearly identifiable.

As far as your preference, fine, you prefer the Ety's, GREAT! Enjoy them!

 

[Jasper994]

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Originally Posted by setmenu Perhaps my long term use of Stax has warped my sense of correct sound. I am beginning to wonder whether the problem is Me! I think the stax [404] may present a sound with some reduction at certain midrange frequencies and maybe thats what gives them their alluring sound. [to some] That said real sounds don't bother me with any midrange excess....

Hehehe maybe, but that really can't be so bad can it...

From the few times I've listened to various Stax and the HE60 and from the time I auditioned some Martin Logans, I've gathered that the electrostatic sound is very delicate and warm. With the right kinds of music this can be truly marvelous...

If I could afford it, I'd have a Stax setup just for when I listened to jazz.

If you're used to the sound though, I could understand why it would be hard to get into something that was really dynamic with a lot of punch. In my experiences with the Etys, they have a much less punchy sound which would probably be a welcome thing if you normally listen to electrostats and are used to that type of a sound.

 

[Jasper994]

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Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT every headphone provides emphasis to certain frequency bands. Shure earphones consistently provide 'pronounced' mids making them somewhat 'musical'. I could just as easy say that the mid frequency band of the Shures is fake, but I am smarter...

Okay Mr. Troll, time to stop taking personal shots at people, it's not nice, and we don't like when people do that around here.

That aside, I'm not talking about just boosted treble in the Ety's, theres some noise in the treble region that I think some perceive as "detail", which it is not. That "detail" is not there when using much more resolving headphones with very nice gear (bel canto dac 2 with grace m902 working as the heaphone amp and either the Sony R10's or AKG K1000's).

 

[some1x]

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Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT well that graph that you are referring to from headroom showing the harmonic distortion of the ER4 has been disproven. First, it shows that the only harmonic distortion of concern is somewhere between 300 to 400 Hz (low frequency). Every other harmonic distortion is evenly spaced...just like in the shure's E3 case. Plus, that graph does not show anything special at the high end because it does not show the high end.

You don't understand IMD graphs. In a typical IMD graph, the 0db reference is the fundamental frequency. The other spikes are distortion.

In the same thread where I posted ER4's IMD graph, I also posted HD650's IMD graph. Notice how other spikes are much much lower, almost non-existant.

 

[warpdriver]

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Originally Posted by Jasper994 theres some noise in the treble region that I think some perceive as "detail", which it is not.

Regardless, on the grand scheme of things, the Ety's are detailed, and even if there is some so-called noise that you think you perceive, the Ety's resolve extremely well. It's not a "trick" or "fake detail", there is real detail in there. I can pick out stuff in very deep layers of sound that is completely lost on lesser headphones. I use the Ety's as a tool for monitoring mixing, and it works extremely well.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

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Originally Posted by Jasper994 Okay Mr. Troll, time to stop taking personal shots at people, it's not nice, and we don't like when people do that around here.

Jaspertroll you are a hypocrite.

Quote:

That aside, I'm not talking about just boosted treble in the Ety's, theres some noise in the treble region that I think some perceive as "detail", which it is not. That "detail" is not there when using much more resolving headphones with very nice gear (bel canto dac 2 with grace m902 working as the heaphone amp and either the Sony R10's or AKG K1000's).

and you keep comparing these full size cans with the etys right? Why not compare canalphones with canalphones? Apples with apples, Etymotic vs. Shures...I thought that was the original intent of this thread, etymotics and shure. You are so off and ridiculously unfocused. Of course there are better cans out there (full size ones). That said, etymotic does not create a fake detail. Maybe you need to get your hearing checked.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

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Originally Posted by some1x You don't understand IMD graphs. In a typical IMD graph, the 0db reference is the fundamental frequency. The other spikes are distortion. In the same thread where I posted ER4's IMD graph, I also posted HD650's IMD graph. Notice how other spikes are much much lower, almost non-existant.

I don't think you understand those graphs. In fact if you did, you would not be making reference to them as being the cause of the ER4's 'hyperdetail'.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

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Originally Posted by Jasper994 As far as your preference, fine, you prefer the Ety's, GREAT! Enjoy them!

Not only my preference, but the preference of many audiophiles.

 

[some1x]

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Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT I don't think you understand those graphs. In fact if you did, you would not be making reference to them as being the cause of the ER4's 'hyperdetail'.

I never said they are the cause of "hyperdetail." I said they show heavy distortion. As I said before, I have doubts about the methods (and therefore the validity of the measurements).

It's one thing to have disagreements of opinions, it's another to simply be factually wrong. If the graph is accurate, there can be no doubt about what it means. It is clear you do not understand harmonic distortion.

A pure 500hz sinewave is played through the ER4. The plot shows the actual spectral measured. Clearly, the 0db is the 500hz fundamental. The other spikes are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and higher order harmonic distortion content. They are extremely high relative to the fundamental. (edit: I noticed also that you thought the 0db spike was between 300hz and 400hz. You are wrong again).

 

[elephantman]

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Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT Not only my preference, but the preference of many audiophiles.

what? u speak for other ppl now? what makes u think audiophiles would choose ety over shure, ridiculous.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

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Originally Posted by some1x I never said they are the cause of "hyperdetail." I said they show heavy distortion. As I said before, I have doubts about the methods (and therefore the validity of the measurements). It's one thing to have disagreements of opinions, it's another to simply be factually wrong. If the graph is accurate, there can be no doubt about what it means. It is clear you do not understand harmonic distortion. A pure 500hz sinewave is played through the ER4. The plot shows the actual spectral measured. Clearly, the 0db is the 500hz fundamental. The other spikes are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and higher order harmonic distortion content. They are extremely high relative to the fundamental. (edit: I noticed also that you thought the 0db spike was between 300hz and 400hz. You are wrong again).

that plot above makes sense to me. It shows that the base frequency is 1kHz and that you get second, third, fourth etc harmonic distortion and also some in between. In other words...if I were to feed in 1kHz at 0dB, I would not only get the fundamental component (1kHz), but also other components.

harmonic distortion: In the output signal of a device, distortion caused by the presence of frequencies that are not present in the input signal

The plots that you presented in 'that' other thread do not have the kind of information provided in the plot above, thus making them invalid. Plus, you don't even know how those measurements were made. How you arrive to those measurements is just as important as the results. Also, measurements made on canalphone could vary in technique...headroom is known for revising their frequency plots often depending on measurement technique.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

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Originally Posted by elephantman what? u speak for other ppl now? what makes u think audiophiles would choose ety over shure, ridiculous.

I never said that. Do you just hear voices in your head?