[kboe]

I would say the 800s, unless were talking about the PK series.

 

[moodyrn]

And that answer is the point I was making. The hd800 off an ipod may be at best 25% of what they are capable of. And the headphones you mentioned are good cans, but I would take a pair of hd800s that's I can only get 25% percent out of over the headphones you mentioned driven 1000% beyond what they are capable of. I remember reading a post in the original he-5 thread of someone enjoying them straight out of an ipod. Those are even harder to drive than the hd800s, but still the he-5 are entry level to reference quality. And even driven out of an ipod, they will sound better than some cans driven to their full potential.

 

[n3rdling]

I once ran my old Stax SRM-717 -> O2 mk1 setup out of my onboard soundcard once just to see what it'd be like and it was still great.  Easily better than almost any other rig out there.

 

[kboe]

Im not saying the headphone doesn't matter as much like your saying the source doesn't matter as much.  Im saying that I believe that every component is important, and all equally.  Nothing is first, and nothing is last.  There is a difference/choice in what I would upgrade first, but that doesn't make it the most important in the signal chain.
 
Quote:

And that answer is the point I was making. The hd800 off an ipod may be at best 25% of what they are capable of. And the headphones you mentioned are good cans, but I would take a pair of hd800s that's I can only get 25% percent out of over the headphones you mentioned driven 1000% beyond what they are capable of. I remember reading a post in the original he-5 thread of someone enjoying them straight out of an ipod. Those are even harder to drive than the hd800s, but still the he-5 are entry level to reference quality. And even driven out of an ipod, they will sound better than some cans driven to their full potential.

 

 

[mralexosborn]

Good point. If you use silly putty as your audio source, nothing happens. I am starting to get it!

 

[moodyrn]

Quote:Originally Posted by kboe /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Im not saying the headphone doesn't matter as much like your saying the source doesn't matter as much.  Im saying that I believe that every component is important, and all equally.  Nothing is first, and nothing is last.  There is a difference/choice in what I would upgrade first, but that doesn't make it the most important in the signal chain.
 
 
 
 
Well I do believe everything is important as well, but when I said how important the role headphone plays you commented that you disagreed with that. And I also said that after the amplifier, you need a "quality" source. So yes the source is important, but no matter how good the source is crappy headphones is still going to sound like crappy headphones.

 

[3X0]

1. A person's own hearing limitations
2. Headphones / speakers
3. The recording itself
4. Amplifier / preamp
5. Source
6. Cables and all interconnects involved
7. Power supply and all related power variables

 

[kboe]

Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by kboe /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Im not saying the headphone doesn't matter as much like your saying the source doesn't matter as much.  Im saying that I believe that every component is important, and all equally.  Nothing is first, and nothing is last.  There is a difference/choice in what I would upgrade first, but that doesn't make it the most important in the signal chain.
 
 
 
 
Well I do believe everything is important as well, but when I said how important the role headphone plays you commented that you disagreed with that. And I also said that after the amplifier, you need a "quality" source. So yes the source is important, but no matter how good the source is crappy headphones is still going to sound like crappy headphones.

I think we agree, were just dancing around with words and points of view.

 

[moodyrn]

Yeah, you are right. We just chose different ways to say it. I woudn't never power any of my cans without both a quality amp and a quality source. And I wouldn't spend a lot of money on an amp or source if I didn't have a good pair of headphones.

 

[kboe]

 
 
Yup. Another HeadFI mystery solved. 

 

[germanium]

I prefere to take ones hearing limitations out of the equation as even with hearing losses one still knows what sounds natural to them & can still determine to a good degree if something is reasonably high qualty or not.
 
1. Is recording quality it self, Something we have no control over except to stop buying poor recordings that we know are bad. Eventually the recording industy may get the hint but I doubt it as too many uninformed will still buy thier shlock.
 
2. Source. The source is supreme in what we can control, however if the source has high output impedance then cabling can wreck havic on even the best sounding sources. This is true of all line level equipment preamps included.
 
3 Amps. Even the best source & preamps sound can be ruined by a poor power amp or even sometimes a good one that has poor synergy. Excellent amps will bring the best out of your speakers no matter thier qualty level to start with even mediocre ones believe it or not if there is good synergy between them but the better speaker the merrier.
 
4. Speaker/room interaction. Rooms have a huge influence on sound quality & rooms need to be taken into account when purchasing speaker & you should buy speakers that are appropriate speaker for your room. One shouldn'y buy small speakers to fill a huge living room regardless of qualities of the speaker as it will likely never satisfy you, nor should you buy large horn loaded speaker to put in a small bedroom system. Dipole speaker need a lot of room behind them to sound thier best. Rear ported speaker need a modest amout of space behind them to keep from sounding boomy. Never place a speaker system along a wall of a square room as you will activate a huge amount of room nodes, place speakers in one corner facing the farthest corner in a square room as will minimize the room nodes 
 
5. Get the best speaker you can afford that is appropriate for your room & amp setup & take time to find the best position for them.
 
6. Cabling. I list this next to last but can move up depending on the situation. In sources & preamps that have low output impedance you will likely hear any difference but if the output impedance is high it can be as important as the source or amp itself. My computer is of the low output impedace variety & cabling makes no difference on it but my SACD is high output impance variety & is quite sensitive to the capacitane of the cabling high capacitance cabling deadning the sound considerably. For this reason I make my own very low capacitance cabling for the SACD player. My speakers have built in amps that I drive directly from my compter soundcard & can use any old cheap wire as they all sound the same to me anyway in this app.
 
7. Power supply. This is last to me because if all the other things are handled correctly power supply sould be a non issue. Most equipment is regulated now days & many amps have excellent power supply noise rejection ratio meaning noise coming in on the powerline should not be audible in any way. Sometime filtering the powersupply can be worse than leaving it alone as the filters can slow the transmission of power into the amp at a time when max power is needed.
 
Equipment does not always need to be expensive to sound good. Much of what is found in advertizing copy of the more expensive equipment is shlock & has no real basis in sound engineering. I'm not saying it is all shlock just most of it.

 

[3X0]

Besides hearing and recording quality, I considered the list with regards to how I would spend my money on a given budget. Considering most of these material categories occupy a wide variety of different price points (e.g. going from dozens of dollars to six-digit figures and beyond). At any budget south of five figures, transducers would always come first for me. Followed by amplification, then source, then cables, then power. Oftentimes I will prefer to have a disproportionate amount of money invested in the speakers.
 
There are some that argue that all "modern day" sources (e.g. DACs) sound the same when volume-matched. Some take it further and suggest that amplification of a given specification will also sound the same (when volume-matched). I am not one of them, but even these evangelists will not argue that every transducer is different -- in fact for them the crux of their argument is that it is the speakers and their placement that comprise all of the differences.

 

[sterling1]

The weakest link plays the greatest role.

 

[sxr71]

The room you are listening in, if speakers 
 
The recording - the only reason this isn't number one is simply that I have come to accept even bad recordings for what they are. Ultimately recorded music is a piece of art and the recording is the recording. If it doesn't capture the music as well as you'd like I feel it is better to accept that and the fact that it is possibly the only recording of that music. That having been said at #2 it is very important
 
The speaker - This should really be with number one ie. the room. I think that most high end speakers can sound good in the right environment. But it is the interaction of the characteristics of the speaker with the characteristics of the room that makes them sound so different in practice
 
The source
 
The amp
 
Power quality
 
Cables
 
A person's own limitations - I think this has the least bearing. If one has hearing limitations then they hear everything with that limitation. Even live musical events. But they still can enjoy the live event and a good stereo setup. This factor becomes number if one should suffer a large loss of hearing acuity suddenly. Then the person would always remember how things used to sound. 

 

[moodyrn]

I completely agree with you about the room when it comes to speakers. I never knew just how much until recently. Five years ago, I purchased a psb speaker system based on how they sounded when I had a chance to demo them. At the same time I purchased a pioneer elite receiver(their flagship at the time). The speakers didn't sound nearly as good. When I used the room correction feature, they sounded much better, but still not as good as they sounded in the store. Recently I purchased onkyo's new flagship receiver(featuring audyssey's new xt32 processing). Before getting the new receiver in, I had made up my mind that it was time for a new speaker system. Well I have that desire no longer. Sure even with the room correction turned on, it still sounded better than the pioneer with out the room correction(i guess it does have a better sounding amp to begin with), but the xt32 made a "huge" difference. I now have no desire to purchase any speakers. I know it's been five years since I listened to them in the store, but they now sound as good as I remember. I'm sure in a well treated room  they would sound even better. It's my belief that even 20,000.00 speakers could sound subpar in a bad sounding room. I had completely stopped listening to my speakers and only listened to my cans. Now that's about to change. For the first time in five years, I can truly enjoy listening to my speakers. The room can make that much of a difference. I suspected that my biggest problem was my room when I put a pair the psb bookshelf speakers in my bed room and they sounded better than my psb floorstanders did in my main room.