[crazyfrenchman27]

Pffftt, the Mustang is a girl's car. ;p

-Matt

 

[D-EJ915]

The front bumper on the first one looks stupid so I'd rather the yellow one right as the cars are in the pics.

 

[DRSpeed85]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller If you take a look at the original Shelby Mustangs and Cobras,as well as other fast Stangs like the Boss 302,they were great because they were light,powerful and fast. They handled great and were built to race. Look how many of these cars ended up on racetracks around the world. Mustangs have typically been light and fast and that formula worked well all through the 90's with the GT and especially the LX 5.0 liter cars. I recall that a 1989 Mustang LX 5.0 weighed right around 3000 pounds with a manual trans. These cars were really quick for that time and were super easy to make go faster. I think Ford should renew the commitment to the enthusiasts who helped make the Mustang a great little Pony car. I have no idea who the new Shelby is aimed at but I can see this one being popular with the gold chain crowd and collectors. I doubt you'll see many of them at racetracks.

I dont think the original Mustang was light enough to be recognised as an unusually light car like the way the Shelby Cobra was, and for a second I got confused because you seemed to explain why that car was successful, more than the Mustang. But I do agree that they were fast and easy to modify and that I believe, were the ingredients of the original Mustang's success. Both of which are carried over in the latest model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller Look how many of these cars ended up on racetracks around the world.

Yet in international standards the Mustang was always abit off. They were good for drag racing and perhaps ovals, but not in proper circuit races that is the crucial part for international success. Mustangs were successful in the states but I dont think it had what it took to take on Ferrari, Maserati, M-Benz and Jaguar. The Shelby Cobra and the Ford GT40 were massively succssful, but not the Mustang.

Frankly, the Mustang was not built for such competition and rather stood on its own with a good reputation for racing in the US. For many foreigners outside the US, that is the appeal of the Mustang that the british built Shelby Cobra and Ford GT40, built for European domination dont have. A real American sports car as it is. The allure is stronger "because" it didnt race in Europe. Even today the Corvette C6R and the Saleen S7R are all out to conquer Europe, and I hear the Ford GT will join soon. But look at the Mustang, a perfectly good car reving up to dominate America, not the world. Thats the appeal of the Mustang. The GTR concept was a joke. Kind of like a Ferrari drag racer. The Shelby Mustang is the real deal.

I think it will sell well, especially in Europe if for once they decide the sell Mustangs there... I live in Italy half a year every year and I know that people there will be amazed to see an American muscle car with 400bhp at the price of ... 60,000 Euros in current exchange rate. It will be a good alternative to those pseudo-muscle cars from AMG, the new BMW M3 and even the Porsche 911 Carrera. I dont think Ford realises how Europeans dig these cars. A mean looking Mustang would just blow away their "politically-correct" hatchbacks and diesel luxury cars. The Shelby version in particular would just roll Smart City Coupe's and smoke it along the way.

In that regard I rate the new Shelby Mustang higher than the Ford GT. They should have made that to celebrate their centennary instead of the GT. A car with a truck engine that is suppose to honor a supposedly British car built with Ford money.

 

[mjg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy I dislike the phony air scoops on the sides of Foose's Mustang. Scoops that don't go anywhere just scream "ricer" to me, like wings on a FWD vehicle.

Wow how close minded,

First off wings on most production cars isn't necessary. It's used to balanced rear lift on high speed applications where compensation is required for plant the rear end of the car on pavement in probablly excess of 180 mph on road races. By your logic, wings are just for looks, not function.. The vehicles that require them very well might be fwd, but you are make a broad generalization.
I tseems like your trying to say something about inferiority of FWD vehcile in pure performance? Correct me if i'm wrong, with examples. Yet in drag racing, unless your talking about a performance level most cars aren't in (like ridiculous cars tuberoller owns and other semi professional racers) then sorry to break it to you, but there are FWD race cars that can hang.

i know of quite a few FWD ricer vehicles that would annihilate either of those.
FWD isn't a ricer vehicle, it's visual mods with no go that are the ricer mods... I have a few friends who autocross their maximas and have no problem hanging. With full complement of stabilizers, poly urethane bushings, suspension, the cars can handle great, yea and we have crazy torque steer...

How about a car that weighs around 2000 lbs and is putting down over 500 fwhp. A few of nissans cars are recipients of the sr20det JDM race motor that is very famous and serious racing potency. These cars tend to be very light... fwd.

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/...projectser.php


http://redlinemax.com/catalog/fastest.php


http://sr20forum.com/printthread.php?t=85094&pp=40

More little boxy fwd vehicles (g20's, 240sx etc, sentra ser) running 10 second quarter mile times.. Sorry to come off strong here but i hate reading close minded comments like this. Poor taste in trim modifications has no indication of performance, what some people do to style the car shouldn't be used as a penalty to discount an entire category of performance vehicles.

Personally, i don't prefer wings on anything, yet my maxima came with one from the factory, it's subtle and i like it.

 

[bhd812]

On the subject of wings or spoilers..

When I bought my TT it was wingless, and I liked it that way...

Until Drving on the highway one night being alittle showoff with a chick in the car going 140ish and all of a sudden My rear end lifted up and threw the back of my car to the left, all under a second. I have no clue how I didnt crash the car but A cop seen it happen and he said he was a few miles ahead (night time and no other cars on the highway).

He pulled up to us cause he thought we crashed but I just was so shaken and she was screaming I just pulled over. I remember telling him what happened and he knew the TT pretty good to (better then me at the time). He told me He knew for a fact I was doing over 120mph cause on the TT without a spoiler The air gets caught up under the car and actually has enough force to life the back end up. I never heard this before and didnt believe him at the time neither. He said I mu have been either lucky as hell or have one hell of a fast reaction cause he couldnt believe from what he seen down the road I didnt hit anything.

I called the dealer the next monday mourning and they demanded me to take the car in ASAP cause they need to put a spoiler on now!
so I got a spoiler for free I guess...lol lol

 

[DRSpeed85]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg sorry to break it to you, but there are FWD race cars that can hang. i know of quite a few FWD ricer vehicles that would annihilate either of those. Sorry to come off strong here but i hate reading close minded comments like this.

I dont think it was necessary to come off so strongly against this comment. You must be dealing alot of anti-FWD.

But it is a fact that FWD is technicaly inferior to RWD or AWD. FWD was invented to save fuel. It is absolutely true and there is no denying. The SR20DETT engine you mentioned is a logitudinal engine for RWD, specifically the Nissano 240SX and Silvia. And infact the quickest FWD hothatches come from Europe, not Japan. Even there it is a known fact that FWD cant handle more than 200bhp. The few cars that do cross the line; the Renault Megane 225, Astra VXR and the Alfa Romeo 147 GTA with 225, 240 and 250bhp respectively have masses and masses of understeer. The better handling cars; Mini Cooper S, Civic Type-R (these are built in the UK) and the Golf GTi are all under or right on 200bhp. Saab are also notorious for their understeering because of overpowering FWD. Same story with Cadillacs (STS and DeVille) which are probably the most powerful production FWDs in the planet and these are not known for their handling.

But yes there is the option of modifications, but I dont think that is a good measure of a cars performance since the possibilities are infinite. There is no way to modify two different cars identically nor in a comparable way. What is for sure is that the car-built-from-scratch-for-speed will definitely outgun a car-made-for-economy-turned-race-rocket all things considered equal. RWD is the traditional choice for a good handling car used since the very first car in 1885 while FWD was invented to improve fuel economy, not speed. So even if a FWD is modified to go very very fast, its limits will be more apparent than that to RWD cars. There is a reason why 90% of motorracing in the world use RWD.

But in terms of drag racing, I dont think it matters much whether it is FWD or RWD as long as you have grip. Fairly simple series, drag racing.

 

[DRSpeed85]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 When I bought my TT it was wingless, and I liked it that way... My rear end lifted up and threw the back of my car to the left, all under a second.

The TT is a prime example of sacrificing function for style. From the side it is perfectly shaped like a wing of an airplane so there were no surprises when the world first knew of this flaw. Other than the design of the car, the mechanical parts of the car come from the Golf. To clarify this, the Golf and the TT are "identical cars" that visually look absolutely different. They didnt even bothered to make the TT sound abit sportier. It just sounds like a regular Golf. This is a common trick used by VW/Audi called platform sharing and they do this to many different cars and charge a higher price. The downside of this is that the car is basically a hatchback with a sports car body and so the rear suspension is totally unsuitable for a high performance car. As I understand, the TT use swing arm suspension in the rear which is normally reserved for hatcbacks. And the newer ones dont even use them anymore. Thats why you dont see TTs in any legitimate race series. There is one race where the TT do race called the DTM series in Germany, but that is abit like America's Nascar, meaning it is totally reengineered and dont shar anything with the production car other than the looks.

 

[mjg]

Hey man your right, it hink i was in a bad mood..
Sorry about the aggresiveness..

Yet you are preaching to the choir, i know why RWD is an advantage. Ii totally agree with your last sentence. I wasn't trying to say FWD is superior, i was merely defending it's capabilities and arguing that FWD doesn't mean a joke.


the sr20 does fit into FWD vehicles, my friend has one in his g20, and theres a few sentra's sporting them as well. I haven't total expertise on the matter, but i've been dabbling with my maxima for a few years and accumulated some xperience, enough to know FWD cars can hang, though of course they are inferior in general, i wanted to show him some exceptions... My point is there are performance FWD vehicles, and "wings" have as little place on rwd vehicles . I was wrong about the 240sx, thanks for pointing tha tout..


http://members.verizon.net/~vze4yqyk/dyno.htm

That's a dyno of a 342 whp maxima. Hate to break to those guys in japan balking at 200 bhp. I will dig up some others putting down over 400-500 horsepower yet i think you know they exist. I think your comments are opinionated though on that thought.

The altima SER which is probablly one of the best performing production FWD cars stock for stock. Also, do not forget about american cars, like the srt4, probablly the highest output FWD vehcile for the price.
The mini S will not hang in a straight line, autocross is soemthing else... Still, let's compare similar cars. They are not in the same class.

I do get alot of laughs and flack from guys driving z cars and when they test my car they usually shut up very fast. I'm not really going to try and prove myself any further here, you guys believe whatever you want, it's fine with me. I would be driving a RWD car had i the opportunity, though let's not be so hasty in discriminating against FWD all the time.. thats my point.

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg Wow how close minded, First off wings on most production cars isn't necessary. It's used to balanced rear lift on high speed applications where compensation is required for plant the rear end of the car on pavement in probablly excess of 180 mph on road races. By your logic, wings are just for looks, not function.. The vehicles that require them very well might be fwd, but you are make a broad generalization.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but wings on FWD street cars are rice. Wings make a lot of difference on RWD vehicles in terms of improved traction, even at reasonable speeds. Wings on FWD vehicles make no difference at all at anything below high race speeds, and even then their effect is largely just to improve weight distribution and thus handling.

 

[mjg]

ehh..

ignore what i had there. If wodgy disagrees with me it's fine, i won't derail the thread anymore.

i'm just going to go away now, bye.

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRSpeed85 I dont think the original Mustang was light enough to be recognised as an unusually light car like the way the Shelby Cobra was, and for a second I got confused because you seemed to explain why that car was successful, more than the Mustang. But I do agree that they were fast and easy to modify and that I believe, were the ingredients of the original Mustang's success. Both of which are carried over in the latest model. Yet in international standards the Mustang was always abit off. They were good for drag racing and perhaps ovals, but not in proper circuit races that is the crucial part for international success. Mustangs were successful in the states but I dont think it had what it took to take on Ferrari, Maserati, M-Benz and Jaguar. The Shelby Cobra and the Ford GT40 were massively succssful, but not the Mustang. Frankly, the Mustang was not built for such competition and rather stood on its own with a good reputation for racing in the US. For many foreigners outside the US, that is the appeal of the Mustang that the british built Shelby Cobra and Ford GT40, built for European domination dont have. A real American sports car as it is. The allure is stronger "because" it didnt race in Europe. Even today the Corvette C6R and the Saleen S7R are all out to conquer Europe, and I hear the Ford GT will join soon. But look at the Mustang, a perfectly good car reving up to dominate America, not the world. Thats the appeal of the Mustang. The GTR concept was a joke. Kind of like a Ferrari drag racer. The Shelby Mustang is the real deal. I think it will sell well, especially in Europe if for once they decide the sell Mustangs there... I live in Italy half a year every year and I know that people there will be amazed to see an American muscle car with 400bhp at the price of ... 60,000 Euros in current exchange rate. It will be a good alternative to those pseudo-muscle cars from AMG, the new BMW M3 and even the Porsche 911 Carrera. I dont think Ford realises how Europeans dig these cars. A mean looking Mustang would just blow away their "politically-correct" hatchbacks and diesel luxury cars. The Shelby version in particular would just roll Smart City Coupe's and smoke it along the way. In that regard I rate the new Shelby Mustang higher than the Ford GT. They should have made that to celebrate their centennary instead of the GT. A car with a truck engine that is suppose to honor a supposedly British car built with Ford money.

I'm glad to see you're a fan of the great muscle and pony cars(me too). I think the reason the original Mustangs were great cars are those I stated. Yeah,it was mostly a stateside thing but were there really any Euro models that directly compared to cars like the Mustang,Camaro and Firebird? The US had the "pony" car market cornered and I still love to see the great Ford vs. Chevy.vs Mopar battles at the vintage races. I think the Shelby Mustang and to a similar degree, cars like the later Cobra R were great cars and really appeal to enthusiasts like myself. The new Shelby,in my opinion is just too heavy and dated, supension wise, to really be taken seriously by guys such as myself who wish to race their performance cars. I loved my 2002 Z06 and thought it was a great car for all the reasons I think the new Shelby Mustang could be great. It was light,fast and handled like it was on rails.

I think Ford passed on a killer opportunity to bring a really gifted car to the masses. They could have done something that would have really forwarded the Shelby,Mustang and SVT legends. I love fairly original thinking like the Dodge and Chrysler SRT vehicles. The SRT-4 and to a great extent the SRT-8 cars(Magnum,Charger,and 300-C) are all very forward thinking vehicles and there is nothing else like them on the road. They are "niche" vehicles if I can borrow a cliche'. The SRT-4 is the closest thing we have to the original Shelby Mustang and the SRT-8 cars are really potent full-size muscle cars in the vein of greats like the Impala SS and Ford Galaxie. We need these cars,even if the naysayers think otherwise. GM has promised that the next Camaro(if it even happens now) will have "at least" 400 horsepower in Z28 form ,will weigh no more than 3200lbs and have a "real chassis" under it which was obviously a barb tossed at the Mustang. I'm hoping we'll soon see a day when Ford,Chevy and Dodge duke it out on the streets and racetracks again. Can you imagine how much fun it would be to see Camaros,Mustangs and Challengers racing in a new race series against cars like the BMW M3 LW and Audi S4? We can dream.

Speaking of the Challenger,I read that it's a "go" and will compete with the Mustang in terms of size,power and performance. Dodge too has promised a light,fast car with a great chassis.

Sorry to hijack your thread Billy but this is a fun discussion.

 

[DRSpeed85]

Although I am a huge fan of cars, I have to admit I am abit biased towards European way of motoring, so I constantly struggle to see a neutral view of things.

I have to confess that I was never really interested in American cars and race series but since I was a child the original Mustang really captured my attention. That car triggered my interest in American muscle cars and it really interests me of how it evolved in a seperate way away from European cars. (similar story with Japanese cars) I always pitied that the lineage of muscle cars never fully recovered from both oil shocks decades ago and until recently it was a dying breed. Especially in the 90s the firebird, camaro and the mustang(94/98 models) were simply garbage. Even the Corvette which I always thought of as the ultimate American sports car seemed to lose its identity with its RX7/Ferrari ripoff looks. Dont even get me started with the Viper.

But now, the landscape is totally different. American car companies are struggling to stay competitive, they are bringing back the allure of the 50s and 60s back to refresh their identitiy as American companies and I think that was the best thing they have done in recent years. Finally we have a proper Corvette, Mustang and a slew of impressive SRT versions from DiamlerChrysler. Its good to see you guys reaffirming your identity. The Mustang looks as American as Jaguar looks British or an Alfa Romeo, Italian. No other company in the world would make a design like that but the Americans. Same goes for the return of those big growling V8s. Its like Mercedes' AMG division is getting slapped for copying the idea of muscles cars by showing what a real, modern muscle car should be. Hats off for that!

My only personal complaint would be those ridiculous SUVs with sportscar engines though. Dodge Ram SRT??? Cherokee SRT???

You cant force a Sumo wrestler to run a 100m sprint!!

 

[patrox89]

fosse's rims alone win the competition (/most bad ass rims ive ever seen)

thread ended


and no, i dont only care about rims. i did like how boyds had engine pics... could we get some pics of fosses engine?


edit: in reply to the complaint that fosse's looks to smooth, as if it was ps'd, its just becuase boyds pics were taken inside and probably under either halogen lamps or flourescents, which give off harsh and bright light. fosse's was taken on a cloudy and probably after 3 oclock, which naturally makes everything looks smooth, ask a photographer. in comparison, boyds looks like plastic and shiny, and fosses looks too smooth.

 

[jbloudg20]

Sorry Boyd's just too old to drive stick... so he uses an auto. Terrible choice IMO.

It doesnt count unless it has a clutch.

 

[seeberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 He pulled up to us cause he thought we crashed but I just was so shaken and she was screaming I just pulled over. I remember telling him what happened and he knew the TT pretty good to (better then me at the time). He told me He knew for a fact I was doing over 120mph cause on the TT without a spoiler The air gets caught up under the car and actually has enough force to life the back end up. I never heard this before and didnt believe him at the time neither. He said I mu have been either lucky as hell or have one hell of a fast reaction cause he couldnt believe from what he seen down the road I didnt hit anything. I called the dealer the next monday mourning and they demanded me to take the car in ASAP cause they need to put a spoiler on now! so I got a spoiler for free I guess...lol lol

Damn, bro, I thought you'd be the first to know... I found out about this back in sometime around 2001 I think in some issue of AutoWeek while working at a doctor's office. That totally sucks for ya though, and I hope nothing like that happens to you again, especially not with your new free mandatory hardware.

BTW, I actually like the knife edge spoiler look, it's understated, functional, and when implemented well, quite classy IMO. Nothing flashy, and it gets the job done.

,
Abe