[acs236]

I'm a little bit skeptical of the battery life of the Ipod. I don't know own one myself, but a friend at work does. After about 6 months, he thought the battery didn't last nearly as long as it did when he first bought it. It could be a defective unit, I suppose.

But why all the "hacking" Ipod crap on the web to replace the battery if it wasn't an issue?

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Magicthyse If you can afford it, for the MP3/CD afficionado who doesn't have to record on the move, the iPod is in order of magnitudes superior to MD in terms of sound quality (with like-for-like audio material), ability to drive different headgear, versatility, speed and lots of other stuff. It's also not that much bigger than an MD.

I'm a big iPod fan, but I disagree with this. Unless you're ripping MP3s at *very* high bitrates, and MD player in standard mode will sound better. ATRAC is simply a superior encoder to even the best MP3. The only way the iPod (or any other MP3 player) will sound better than standard MD is if you're listening to AIFFs/WAVs.

As for size, the current MD players are about 1/3 the size of an iPod

Quote:

Do NOT go MD unless you're prepared to spend money on a high-speed dub system or deck, or if you do have a monster of a PC to use NetMD Simple Burner with. If you are prepared to do that, they ain't bad. [/B]

I also don't agree with this as a hard rule. If you're the type that is contantly wanting to listen to different things, and you don't have the patience to copy in real-time, then I agree with the above. But a lot of people aren't; I've never had a problem with the fact that I have to record in real-time. I simply put a CD on and press play, then do something else (or *gasp* listen to the CD

). In return for being patient, I get better sound than MP3

Plus with an MD player you get MUCH longer battery life (mine has over 60 hours, and it's two years old), better "active" use (MD is much better than a hard drive for exercise), and smaller size (of course, with less music).

Personally, I think that for listening when you don't need a huge library of songs, MD is a better all-around platform. It's when you get into wanting thousands of songs that hard drive-based MP3 players really shine.

Just to be clear, I'm not dissing the iPod -- I plan on getting one

-- I'm just saying that the issue of MD vs. MP3 isn't as cut-and-dried as people usually portray it (x is better than y).

 

[Magicthyse]

I think this is one of the great myths of MD.

I have 320K MP3's on the D-CJ01 as a rule, and I can't tell the difference between that and SP on a Sony player. I've tried also listening to 320K MP3's 'reconstituted' on a regular CD deck (CDP-XE570) versus the MDS-JE770 deck. Once again, can't really tell the difference.

I'd say 80% of my audio 'rips' from CD's (which I do as soon as I get a CD - my main PC rips at about 10x) are at 320K. I can then write them back at 12x on a CD-RW.

Bear in mind also that most MD's (and unfortunately my D-CJ01 also) has a fairly poor amp in terms of output - especially if you want to use a decent closed phone. The iPod has a truly droolworthy amp for a portable.

Having used one of the older models for a day, I'm really looking forward to getting an iPod. I'll hang on for another 6 months or so to see if a recording version is in the works - if not, I'll get the 20Gb unit and keep the IM-MT880 which hopefully should be delivered in the next few days.

 

[ronzoni]

There is no best device for everyone or all situations.

I own MD, MP3/CD, and MP3 (non-HD). My preference is MD. Although the iPod seems very good with nice features, it has some negatives like the other devices, formost is not using a standard type battery, so extended periods away from the charger or AC can be frustrating, no music! The newer MD is the best in the battery department, most get 10's of hours with one AA, even rechargeables. But the down side of MD is the slow 'recording' process. But Faelix, if you mainly want copies of your CD's then MD is not a bad option. You can record digitally from devices with with optical out. They can be found some PCDP's, some home DVD's and CDP's and even sound cards. If you get a MP3 player you'll still have to rip and burn (or download) your cd's and on some computers that can take considerable time also. I don't see the real advantage of getting a MP3/CD in your case since you have the CD's already. The players are no smaller, you just may want to carry a couple extra discs. And if you don't want to haul originals around then just burn copies and use your regular player.

My favorite thing about MD is getting music from other sources, like if I have my PCDP with me I can borrow a CD, then listen and record at the same time. Or record music off the radio, old LP's, or satillite dish (record digitally). I listen to alot of non-commercial radio and record music that's hard to find. With a good tuner the recordings sound very good. MD is also good for recording concerts or even lectures, if you get a model with the mic jack.

I also have a home MD deck with optical out and an inexpensive sound card with optical in/out. So I can digitally upload music recorded from any of the mentioned sources and edit, archive, compress etc. I get very good results, noticeably better uploads than using line in. Also MD can used with a home recording studio, which I am slowly trying to get setup.

 

[hokiefritz]

I have both a MD and an iPod. For MD I record at SP and LP2. On the iPod I use high quality VBR MP3s. I enjoy both, but the iPod sounds better simply because it has a better headphone amp. In theory Atrac3 is a better type of encoding than MP3, but when used portably I really doubt I could here the difference between high quality recordings with either of these formats.

 

[grinch]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF I'm a big iPod fan, but I disagree with this. Unless you're ripping MP3s at *very* high bitrates, and MD player in standard mode will sound better. ATRAC is simply a superior encoder to even the best MP3. The only way the iPod (or any other MP3 player) will sound better than standard MD is if you're listening to AIFFs/WAVs.

i have not a/b'd the atrac and mp3s.. but how did you come to this conclusion? how did you encode your mp3s and what settings did you use to do so? i can't help but think that the statement "ATRAC is simply a superior encoder to even the best MP3" might not be true..

just interested, not trying to be nasty or anything.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch i have not a/b'd the atrac and mp3s.. but how did you come to this conclusion? how did you encode your mp3s and what settings did you use to do so? i can't help but think that the statement "ATRAC is simply a superior encoder to even the best MP3" might not be true..

I've done quite a few comparisons myself, but on the MD boards a lot of people have done even better ones than I have. Personally, I've ripped high-quality MP3s at 300+kbs and listened to them on both a computer and via an iPod. The same music copied to MD at standard speed sounds much better on MD, no matter which player I used.

People with certain Sony solid state players have tested both MP3 and ATRAC-encoded files on the same player, and the ATRAC-encoded music always wins. It's generally accepted that ATRAC is superior to MD; the only reason it's not wildly popular is because (guess what?) Sony charges too much to license it out

Plus you gotta believe that the fact that Sony has spent millions and millions on ATRAC research has to have some positive benefit over MP3

 

[grinch]

i'd imagine it'd be tough to a/b it, but i can understand that atrac is better too. i think that a lot of people don't like mp3 because of the hardware/decoders used (they just suck). nobody has made a decent mp3 player yet, in my opinion. the ipod is supposed to be great, but i think it's only great for mac users. for people who use real computers, they're a pain. also, i think a lot of people don't a/b the encoded files correctly. a good way of testing would be:

rip a track, encode it with lame (console version, i prefer --alt-preset extreme), then decode that file with lame as well (-decode in command line). then play the original wav and the mp3-encoded-decoded wav.

i think a lot of people don't do this. although, i've been trying to think of a good way to do this and make it able to test/compare with an md but i haven't come up with anything good yet. i guess you could burn both tracks to a cd and then transfer them an md.. and then transfer just the one track and use the lp2 setting on another md? something like that. i'd be interested in hearing differences that way. also, does atrac have a software/encoder based on computer that will make .atrac files? that'd be interesting to throw into the mix as well.

i'd be very interested in hearing anybody's comments on a/bing atrac and mp3 using this way. and thank you for your reply macdef.

p.s. besides, i'm waiting for dataplay to come out anyway.

 

[hokiefritz]

The iPod is probably the best device I have ever hooked up to my PC. I use EphPod and it couldn't be easier [and faster!] to transfer files from my pc. It exceeds all of my expectations and is completely painless. Your mileage my vary however.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch also, does atrac have a software/encoder based on computer that will make .atrac files? that'd be interesting to throw into the mix as well. i'd be very interested in hearing anybody's comments on a/bing atrac and mp3 using this way. and thank you for your reply macdef. p.s. besides, i'm waiting for dataplay to come out anyway.

I've seen files that were encoded as atrac 3.5 and above on some sites, damn, i wish i could find the link or the player i downloaded to playback a atrac file. It's out there.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch the ipod is supposed to be great, but i think it's only great for mac users. for people who use real computers, they're a pain.

1) There are a bunch of good, easy to use Windows utilities for use with the iPod. Plus the newest iPods are Windows-compatible.

2) Um, "real computers?" LOL And people wonder why Mac users are so testy

Quote:

also, does atrac have a software/encoder based on computer that will make .atrac files? that'd be interesting to throw into the mix as well.

There used to be a good ATRAC en/decoder for use with some Sony solid-state players. However, I haven't seen it in quite a while.


Quote:

p.s. besides, i'm waiting for dataplay to come out anyway.

If Sony would just cave and let people use MDs as removeable media on their computers, and provide ATRAC de/encoding in software, that would be an awesome setup.

 

[fredpb]

I use many devices of many types, including MD, MP3 hardware player, MP3/CD player, MP3 hard drive jukeboxes (Treo 10 and NJB3), CD.

Each has advantages and disadvantages.

I am not a rabid iPod supporter.

I think for $260 the Treo 10 by eDigital with Koss KSC35's kicks ass. They have the 15gb unit now I think. User replacable batteries at $20.

MD's are nice. But each time you record one from your cd player it's going to cost you for ech MD. They are not as cheap as blank CD media. Plus for best sound quality you must record them real time, preferrably with an optical digital connection. Then you have to carry around the MD's.

But each MD is unique. You lose one, you record another. If you iPod hard drive dies you are out hours of work and thousands of songs. If your MD player croaks you buy a new one, and you use your library of MD's....they don't go with the player.

As far as sound goes, LAME encoded mp3's are just as good or better than ATRAC. MD's don't have the extended low's MP3 does. I listen to a lot of classical music, and the MD's don't have the extended lows from either a pre recorded CD or vinyl.

Making a copy of your favorite CD to MD or other media is goodness. You don't want to carry around your main CD library with you. CD's go out of print or get hard to get.

 

[hokiefritz]

Quote:

fredpd wrote: But each MD is unique. You lose one, you record another. If you iPod hard drive dies you are out hours of work and thousands of songs. If your MD player croaks you buy a new one, and you use your library of MD's....they don't go with the player.

Huh? You lost me Fred. Sure, if the HD dies your player won't work. Send it in or get a replacement, hook it up and hit the sync button or send directories of files. You can walk away and all of your music will be transferred to the iPod in less than 5 minutes.

rabidly,

hokiefritz

 

[andrzejpw]

Quote:

besides, i'm waiting for dataplay to come out anyway

I'm still VERY skeptical about dataplay. They still haven't told us just HOW they're fitting so much music on a 500 megabyte disc. What kind of compression? The stuff they use for hitclips?

Quote:

MD's are nice. But each time you record one from your cd player it's going to cost you for ech MD. They are not as cheap as blank CD media.

MDs are rerecordable. Personally, I have about 20 discs. On occasion, I re-record discs with new music, etc. I don't have to be there for the recording process.

Quote:

As far as sound goes, LAME encoded mp3's are just as good or better than ATRAC. MD's don't have the extended low's MP3 does. I listen to a lot of classical music, and the MD's don't have the extended lows from either a pre recorded CD or vinyl.

THere are trade-offs with both formats. As you listen to classical music, you must notice that MP3 does not offer great highs.

Personally, I have a sony e900 + sharp MT90. I'm very happy with them, although I probably would trade them for an ipod if I had the chance, if only to see just how they worked. . .

 

[grinch]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF 1) There are a bunch of good, easy to use Windows utilities for use with the iPod. Plus the newest iPods are Windows-compatible. 2) Um, "real computers?" LOL And people wonder why Mac users are so testy

the officially supported software for the windows version is music math and personally, i'd rather install a virus than that hideous/useless program. i'm interested in seeing what freeware after-market companies/hackers have to offer, but usually that kind of thing can get pretty shoddy.

sorry about the "real computers" thing, but i had to stick it to you somehow. it's a pc user thing.

Quote:

There used to be a good ATRAC en/decoder for use with some Sony solid-state players. However, I haven't seen it in quite a while.

i believe the openmg software and the "simple burner" program do something along these lines. i'd like to play around with this and see how it works. i was reading and apparently you CAN import .wav files to the netmd and it'll encode them as the player downloads them, at 16x i believe (for lp2). very interesting, but i imagine for the ~$300 the mz-n1 would cost, i'd rather try the water with an ipod.. played with one last night and it seems pretty cool although i feel the wheel thing is a bit clumsy. just me though. i'd rather have good quality buttons than rub my finger around in a circle.. just my preference.

Quote:

If Sony would just cave and let people use MDs as removeable media on their computers, and provide ATRAC de/encoding in software, that would be an awesome setup.

i believe the new viao desktops have a md drive built into it for netmd, which i think is freakin cool. it's probably just connected internally via usb though.. blargh.