[Podster]

OK, if I'm wanting to go with a Ray Samuels SR71B or Protector where do I find/buy the balanced mini connector LOD? With that said I may want to ask who sells headphones (IEM or full size cans) with these connectors! Looks like EU's on Rays page connected to the Protector? Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated

 

[Mad Max]

For iDevices?  They do not have balanced line-outs to begin with, thus why you will not find LODs with balanced connectors.

 

[Podster]

Appreciate the reply Mad Max, so if Ray's SR-71B has a balanced input you would think someone makes a LOD with that connector no? I guess I could have called Ray and asked him who makes the balanced input cable for that unit!

 

[Mad Max]

The balanced input is probably meant for balanced DACs.
LODs can only be single-ended, unless you mean a regular balanced interconnect, then that you would use for a balanced DAC like the iBasso DB2.  It might be able to take the output from a desktop balanced DAC, someone should have mentioned something in the SR71B thread, or you can ask Ray.  The interconnect will have to be a custom job, I think.  Desktop balanced DACs use full-sized XLR connectors and the DB2 uses some kind of Hirose connector.

 

[Podster]

THX Mad, I have to call Ray again as I must know what his intensions were putting a balanced input on the SR-71B. It may be for balanced DAC signal in but I also want to know why a iPod LOD can not be pinned out for a balanced signal into the SR-71's balanced input! Inquiring minds want to know

 

[Mad Max]

Balanced requires L+, L-, R+, and R- signals and ipods only have L, R, and GND (passive ground), thus they're incompatible.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

A balanced signal requires a completely different circuit to produce/transmit it. You can't just add another wire/contact and make it balanced. Even an "active ground" on a conventional 3-conductor headphone cable trying to mimic true balanced performance through a specialized 4-conductor transmission is a different kind of circuit despite using basically the same 3 conductors of the cable. This isn't like splitting a signal like when you want to share your earphones; I think sometimes splitting a signal can affect its voltage or the effective impedance of the devices.
 
 
In any case, such questions can always be directed to the Search function first since chances are at least one person has asked about it before, but given it's probably the main topic of a thread, it will be easier to find: http://www.head-fi.org/search.php?search=balanced

 

[tme110]

You can do it, there'd just be absolutely no point to it.
 
There are 1000's of devices out there that can supply a balanced signal to the SR-71, it's just that idevices aren't one of them.
Quote:

THX Mad, I have to call Ray again as I must know what his intensions were putting a balanced input on the SR-71B. It may be for balanced DAC signal in but I also want to know why a iPod LOD can not be pinned out for a balanced signal into the SR-71's balanced input! Inquiring minds want to know

 

[Podster]

Appareciate your responses Mad/Maniac (I see I'm not the only one this hobby has this affect on)

 
Yes I run balanced on my main rig at home and when I saw the SR-71B with balanced input I was intrigued and had this wild idea there was an iPod LOD with balanced signal out but I should have known the late great purveyor of i-proprietary/i-scheduled obsolete-tion would not have designed a pin out that would let a balanced signal come out of an i-Anything Now coming from the masters of media machines and the mighty iTunes Lossless format one would think a balanced signal out might have made it to the table

 
Pretty much anything I dream up in my head is always a pipe dream if Apple is involved

 
I spoke with Ray again and he actually designed the SR-71B to be fed a balanced signal in from a CDP or DAC from a PC or laptop scenario. Now he did say he designed the single ended input to convert the output signal to balanced which is pretty sweet however nothing for the i-products due to restrictions and legalities from Apple! Go figure
 
Guess I'll just stick to my Tomahawk and Shadow for portable listening off the old i-Units and be happy.

 

[Podster]

Exactly TME110, after speaking with Ray and finding out how he designed the single ended input on the SR-71B to convert the output to balanced I figured just having balanced phones was the best I would get out of a portable camera case rig. I do appeciate everyone's input to my question/s

 THX

 

[tme110]

good luck.
 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Appreciate your responses Mad/Maniac (I see I'm not the only one this hobby has this affect on)

 
Yes I run balanced on my main rig at home and when I saw the SR-71B with balanced input I was intrigued and had this wild idea there was an iPod LOD with balanced signal out but I should have known the late great purveyor of i-proprietary/i-scheduled obsolete-tion would not have designed a pin out that would let a balanced signal come out of an i-Anything Now coming from the masters of media machines and the mighty iTunes Lossless format one would think a balanced signal out might have made it to the table

 
Pretty much anything I dream up in my head is always a pipe dream if Apple is involved

 
I spoke with Ray again and he actually designed the SR-71B to be fed a balanced signal in from a CDP or DAC from a PC or laptop scenario. Now he did say he designed the single ended input to convert the output signal to balanced which is pretty sweet however nothing for the i-products due to restrictions and legalities from Apple! Go figure
 
Guess I'll just stick to my Tomahawk and Shadow for portable listening off the old i-Units and be happy.

 
No problem. Regarding the SE input, the RSA and Ibasso amps pretty much do something similar, but converting an originally SE signal into balanced is only good for being able to use the balanced amp, but you won't be getting all the extra juice as you would out of a fully-balanced set-up. Still, that doesn't mean it's totally a waste - the PB1 sounded better with my HD600 than any other portable amp I've tried. I only sold it because a good deal on a Cantate came up, and I only really used it at home anyway (I don't like a cumbersome set-up when I'm up and about).
 
Going back to your set up though - with all your amps already, it's probably good to save your money and stick to them. Or since using a balanced portable isn't totally useless, get it, try it, and if you like it, sell one of the other portables. Keep in mind I offer thrifty solutions primarily because I need to be thrifty myself; with your gear that's probably not as big a problem.

 

[estreeter]

At the risk of setting someone off, I'm going to paste in some of the Schiit FAQ on the 'Balanced only' Mjolnir amp. Despite very little understanding of electronics,  I have been dubious about amps which try to offer both single-ended and balanced drive for some time, based purely on my experience with 'all things to all people' products under a thousand dollars. It seems Schiit feel the same way.
 
I offer this purely in the interests of promoting further discussion, as I have no idea how Ray has implemented the internals of the 71B and the guff below may have no validity in terms of Ray's design.  
 
 
Okay, fine, another balanced amp. Who cares?
Wait a sec, bub! This isn’t just another balanced amp where they throw two of the same gain stages in and run one inverted. It isn’t a balanced-to-single-ended-to-balanced amp either. It’s a real balanced amp from input to output, and it’s the only dedicated headphone amp based on a Circlotron-style topology.

What the hell is a Circlotron, and why do I need it?
“Circlotron” was the first commercial name for a cross-shunt push-pull output stage. At the time, it used tubes. We use JFET inputs and MOSFET outputs, so we call our topology Crossfet™.

 
 
Why no single-ended outputs?
The circlotron-style topology is inherently balanced. You can’t get a single-ended output from it easily. To do that, we’d have to have an entirely separate gain stage, or sum the outputs, or have some kinda wacked out output-stage-switching arrangement—all of which we tried, and decided they screwed up the basic performance of the amp too much. So, no single-ended, sorry.

That’s cool, I’ll just use an adapter for my single-ended headphones, right?
One word: boom. Well, not actually, but you will trigger the internal protection.

 

[tme110]

This really doesn't say much.  but for the no-SE output - it's not their feeling on the subject it's that they picked a topology/archetecture (and there's quite a few ways to make an amp balanced) that doesn't lend itself to doing it.  I'm not sure if it's true or not (haven't looked into the design) but it probably is.