Well, I hope I have a kid who can write songs like "Some Kinda Love," "Pale Blue Eyes" or "I'll Be Your Mirror" by the time it's seven. Probably not "Heroin," "Dirty Boulevard" or "The Last Shot," though.
Where does Lou Reed fit in?
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PhaedrusX
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well, i guess you won't be able to stand me, then.
to me, the Velvet Underground was more than interesting. they were groundbreaking. Sonic Youth is given a lot of credit for pioneering guitar distortion and ushering in the age of "alternative" rock, but the VU paved that ground, and did it better, decades earlier. the fact that most people weren't ready for them doesn't diminish their importance.
yes, it's dirty, noisy lo-fi and Lou Reed's vocal style lacks polish and pitch, but the emotion is there in spades...and their influence is pretty undeniable.
*refer to avatar
| Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me Lou Reed fits in the "Shouldn't have been a success" pile. I cant stand anything Lou Reed has ever been a part of, and worse, I can't stand anyone who claims lou reed to be a prime influence. Yeah, the VU was interesting.......but was their music good? 
Aside from the fact that I think there are better 7 year old songwriters than Mr. Reed, I like singers that can keep pitch and have versatile emotion in their voice |
well, i guess you won't be able to stand me, then.
to me, the Velvet Underground was more than interesting. they were groundbreaking. Sonic Youth is given a lot of credit for pioneering guitar distortion and ushering in the age of "alternative" rock, but the VU paved that ground, and did it better, decades earlier. the fact that most people weren't ready for them doesn't diminish their importance.
yes, it's dirty, noisy lo-fi and Lou Reed's vocal style lacks polish and pitch, but the emotion is there in spades...and their influence is pretty undeniable.
*refer to avatar
VicAjax
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well then, you apparently fit in the "have little knowledge and/or appreciation of rock music for the past 40 years but feels it necessary to comment anyway" pile.
| Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me Lou Reed fits in the "Shouldn't have been a success" pile. I cant stand anything Lou Reed has ever been a part of, and worse, I can't stand anyone who claims lou reed to be a prime influence. Yeah, the VU was interesting.......but was their music good?
Aside from the fact that I think there are better 7 year old songwriters than Mr. Reed, I like singers that can keep pitch and have versatile emotion in their voice |
well then, you apparently fit in the "have little knowledge and/or appreciation of rock music for the past 40 years but feels it necessary to comment anyway" pile.
Kees
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You just disqualified yourself.
| Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me Lou Reed fits in the "Shouldn't have been a success" pile. I cant stand anything Lou Reed has ever been a part of, and worse, I can't stand anyone who claims lou reed to be a prime influence. Yeah, the VU was interesting.......but was their music good?
Aside from the fact that I think there are better 7 year old songwriters than Mr. Reed, I like singers that can keep pitch and have versatile emotion in their voice |
You just disqualified yourself.
MdRex
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panties-in-a-bunch alert?
DavidMahler
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Actually I have a vast knowledge of Rock music from the past 40 years. I own every VU album, and 6 bootlegs by them and 7 Lou Reed solo CDs. The thing is though, I own plenty of CDs of artists I despise.
The thing about Lou Reed is that he lowered the standards of what it meant to be a musician in rock, while he did heighten the poetic awareness in music. At the same time, I cannot name a single artist or band who took Lou Reed as an influence who I find to be talented on a musical level. Yes music should express something true, raw, ugly in fact if need be......but music has to come first, and Lou Reed expresses nothing on musical level. I was a better guitarist than Reed at age 7 and i'm not exaggerating, and most people are born a better singer than Lou Reed.
Lou Reed made it big because he was willing to speak of things that most people wouldnt in their music. That and he got with Andy Warhol and had an awesome affair.
"Bum Bum Bum.....Satelite of Love"
| Originally Posted by VicAjax /img/forum/go_quote.gif well then, you apparently fit in the "have little knowledge and/or appreciation of rock music for the past 40 years but feels it necessary to comment anyway" pile.
|
Actually I have a vast knowledge of Rock music from the past 40 years. I own every VU album, and 6 bootlegs by them and 7 Lou Reed solo CDs. The thing is though, I own plenty of CDs of artists I despise.
The thing about Lou Reed is that he lowered the standards of what it meant to be a musician in rock, while he did heighten the poetic awareness in music. At the same time, I cannot name a single artist or band who took Lou Reed as an influence who I find to be talented on a musical level. Yes music should express something true, raw, ugly in fact if need be......but music has to come first, and Lou Reed expresses nothing on musical level. I was a better guitarist than Reed at age 7 and i'm not exaggerating, and most people are born a better singer than Lou Reed.
Lou Reed made it big because he was willing to speak of things that most people wouldnt in their music. That and he got with Andy Warhol and had an awesome affair.
"Bum Bum Bum.....Satelite of Love"
markl
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You know that you're talking about one of the great rock guitar players?
| The thing about Lou Reed is that he lowered the standards of what it meant to be a musician in rock |
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Geez, I shouldn't even take the bait here, but the first cat who comes to mind is Jonathan Richman. A certified Lou Reed fanatic at one point, and the first incarnation of Richman's band the Modern Lovers had future members of the Cars (David Robinson) and Talking Heads (Jerry Harrison).
| Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif At the same time, I cannot name a single artist or band who took Lou Reed as an influence who I find to be talented on a musical level. |
Geez, I shouldn't even take the bait here, but the first cat who comes to mind is Jonathan Richman. A certified Lou Reed fanatic at one point, and the first incarnation of Richman's band the Modern Lovers had future members of the Cars (David Robinson) and Talking Heads (Jerry Harrison).
VicAjax
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what?!
take a song like "Sister Ray" and pit it against a classic like, say, Bob Dylan's "Visions of Johanna." of course you may like one and not the other, but it's undebatable that there's more going on musically in "Sister Ray."
In fact, the style and musical principles VU introduced to rock are not dissimilar to modern classical minimalism, a la Philip Glass. John Cale, of course, has a lot to do with that.
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spit take. WHAT?!
Big Star, Stereolab, Sonic Youth, Television, The Pixies... just off the top of my head. all of these bands were pioneering, hugely influential and -- WAIT FOR IT -- musically talented. people like Tim Ganes, Tom Verlaine and Thurston Moore are astoundingly gifted musicians who were highly influenced by Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground.
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no, you weren't. and once again i refer you to Bob Dylan.
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warhol didn't have much to do with it, because VU was essentially ignored until after they broke up. but you're obviously projecting a fictional scenario upon a band/artist because you happen not to like him..
that, and ownership of albums doesn't necessarily equal knowledge of music.
| Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing about Lou Reed is that he lowered the standards of what it meant to be a musician in rock,while he did heighten the poetic awareness in music. |
what?!
take a song like "Sister Ray" and pit it against a classic like, say, Bob Dylan's "Visions of Johanna." of course you may like one and not the other, but it's undebatable that there's more going on musically in "Sister Ray."
In fact, the style and musical principles VU introduced to rock are not dissimilar to modern classical minimalism, a la Philip Glass. John Cale, of course, has a lot to do with that.
Quote:
| At the same time, I cannot name a single artist or band who took Lou Reed as an influence who I find to be talented on a musical level. |
spit take. WHAT?!
Big Star, Stereolab, Sonic Youth, Television, The Pixies... just off the top of my head. all of these bands were pioneering, hugely influential and -- WAIT FOR IT -- musically talented. people like Tim Ganes, Tom Verlaine and Thurston Moore are astoundingly gifted musicians who were highly influenced by Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground.
Quote:
| Yes music should express something true, raw, ugly in fact if need be......but music has to come first, and Lou Reed expresses nothing on musical level. I was a better guitarist than Reed at age 7 and i'm not exaggerating, and most people are born a better singer than Lou Reed. |
no, you weren't. and once again i refer you to Bob Dylan.
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| Lou Reed made it big because he was willing to speak of things that most people wouldnt in their music. That and he got with Andy Warhol and had an awesome affair. |
warhol didn't have much to do with it, because VU was essentially ignored until after they broke up. but you're obviously projecting a fictional scenario upon a band/artist because you happen not to like him..
that, and ownership of albums doesn't necessarily equal knowledge of music.
goldenratiophi
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I could count on one hand the number of great artists who weren't influenced by Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, but that would be a waste because I could count that same number on zero hands.
| Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif I cannot name a single artist or band who took Lou Reed as an influence who I find to be talented on a musical level. |
I could count on one hand the number of great artists who weren't influenced by Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, but that would be a waste because I could count that same number on zero hands.
DavidMahler
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Not a single band that you've named, including Bob Dylan, do I feel merit the designation "musical talent"....but I'll stop here as knocking Bob Dylan is Sac-religious hahaha
About my knowledge of rock music......its very large, but I'm extremely opinionated.
And Lou Reed is NOT one of the greatest guitarists in any genre. Sorry. I've seen him live 3 times, including his recent tour of the Berlin album, and his skills as a guitarist is even more laughable than Neil Young's.
Neil Young on the other hand I consider to be a genius songwriter.
About my knowledge of rock music......its very large, but I'm extremely opinionated.
And Lou Reed is NOT one of the greatest guitarists in any genre. Sorry. I've seen him live 3 times, including his recent tour of the Berlin album, and his skills as a guitarist is even more laughable than Neil Young's.
Neil Young on the other hand I consider to be a genius songwriter.
Davey
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Personally, I love VU and many of the bands that borrowed heavily from that sound, Television, The Feelies, Jesus & Mary Chain, Dream Syndicate, REM, Galaxie 500, Luna, Yo La Tengo, and hundreds more. But your statement really seems just as silly as his, unless you clarify that you are only talking about great artists that you like. There are many many great artists who would be no different if Lou Reed had never dropped out of school, or met John Cale, or formed the Warlocks, or later the Velvet Underground. There would be a huge gap in most of our rock music collections, but the world would still be full of great artists. There were a few other pretty significant rock bands working back in those days too
| Originally Posted by goldenratiophi /img/forum/go_quote.gif I could count on one hand the number of great artists who weren't influenced by Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, but that would be a waste because I could count that same number on zero hands.
|
Personally, I love VU and many of the bands that borrowed heavily from that sound, Television, The Feelies, Jesus & Mary Chain, Dream Syndicate, REM, Galaxie 500, Luna, Yo La Tengo, and hundreds more. But your statement really seems just as silly as his, unless you clarify that you are only talking about great artists that you like. There are many many great artists who would be no different if Lou Reed had never dropped out of school, or met John Cale, or formed the Warlocks, or later the Velvet Underground. There would be a huge gap in most of our rock music collections, but the world would still be full of great artists. There were a few other pretty significant rock bands working back in those days too
goldenratiophi
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that was the point, really.
| Originally Posted by Davey /img/forum/go_quote.gif your statement really seems just as silly as his |
that was the point, really.
VicAjax
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if you don't consider the dual guitar-work of Richard Lloyd and Tom Verlaine, or the complex tunings and stringings of Thurston Moore and Lee Renaldo, to be talent, then this declaration:
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is nonsense.
| Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not a single band that you've named, including Bob Dylan, do I feel merit the designation "musical talent" |
if you don't consider the dual guitar-work of Richard Lloyd and Tom Verlaine, or the complex tunings and stringings of Thurston Moore and Lee Renaldo, to be talent, then this declaration:
Quote:
| About my knowledge of rock music......its very large... |
is nonsense.
skaos
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Well, i don't know much about Lou Reed, or Velvet Undergroung like you guy's, but i sure enjoy the musical work of Lou Reed.
Since when do you have to be a Genius at playing guitar, to make amazing songs? can't a song just be simple, and still be one of the most pleasurable to ear? sngs such as "Heroin" , "Wayting for the man", the chaotic "European sun", and the classic "Walk on the wild side"? do great Rock songs need extreme 20minute long guitar solo's (Not saying they'r bad either!!!)?.
I think denying the influence Lou Reed had, is ridiculous!
Most critics (not sayng we should listen to them, but they shure know better than me! off course there are people on this forum who's "Knowledge of music......its very large" might disagree), describe VU as one of the most important and influential groups of all time.
Anyway, read this article about how influential was "The Velvet Underground"
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And i know my english sucks!
Since when do you have to be a Genius at playing guitar, to make amazing songs? can't a song just be simple, and still be one of the most pleasurable to ear? sngs such as "Heroin" , "Wayting for the man", the chaotic "European sun", and the classic "Walk on the wild side"? do great Rock songs need extreme 20minute long guitar solo's (Not saying they'r bad either!!!)?.
I think denying the influence Lou Reed had, is ridiculous!
Most critics (not sayng we should listen to them, but they shure know better than me! off course there are people on this forum who's "Knowledge of music......its very large" might disagree), describe VU as one of the most important and influential groups of all time.
Anyway, read this article about how influential was "The Velvet Underground"
Quote:
| Historians often hail the group for their incalculable influence upon the punk and new wave of subsequent years, and while the Velvets were undoubtedly a key touchstone of the movements, to focus upon these elements of their vision is to only get part of the story. The group was uncompromising in their music and lyrics, to be sure, sometimes espousing a bleakness and primitivism that would inspire alienated singers and songwriters of future generations |
And i know my english sucks!
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