[variable114]

I understand not liking them but I don't know why it bugs people so much that someone who isn't technically talented can be appreciated by some people.

I'm not really a Reed fan, I like the song Venus in Furs but that's about as far as it goes, but still why does it bug you that someone who put less effort into learning music/an instrument than another person might write the right song for the right crowd and gain some notoriety?

it's not like it's a record of a group of 16 year olds playing covers poorly making money. that would bother me, too, but there is a creative process here, even if it's not the one you envision as being proper.

 

[omegaman]

Don't want to start another argument but I was just listening to Transformer and personally think this a fantastic album. Some great tunes and excellently recorded.

 

[Fallen]

Wow.

Oh well.

I don't think we're going to agree on much, Davidmahler, but that's okay. Music is and always will be subjective. I do agree that in the "virtuoso" sense, John Cale's musicality can be seen to be superior to Reed's. But in a purely emotional sense, you seem to be disregarding the visceral response that Reed's music can elicit, which can make me want to listen to him over Cale.

And this isn't about lyrics, which I acknowledge to be a different argument. Never mind that for now. But Reed's music has an immediate, emotional impact. Subjective, I know. But I will argue that is a skill and a gift, no less valuable than musicality and sophistication.

If musical sophistication or complexity is the be-all and end-all, then we would be listening to Bach, Rachmaninoff, Mozart and Mendelssohn ad infinitum.

And I also have to argue for the amazing production on Wait's albums, and his involvement in them. I can't imagine a producer telling Tom to bang on the chair leg a little harder. I think that's pure Tom.

 

[DavidMahler]

Speaking of "Tom"s.....Petty was awful tonight, but I expected nothing more....just bustin' your chops.

 

[DavidMahler]

I thought of an album where the singing is not first rate, but I would still call it one of my 20 favorite albums of all time. Music from Big Pink by the Band..........the feel of that record is amazing, the songs are great, and while the singing is in tune but nothing special, the musicianship is phenomenal. Those boys could play. Love that record, and love that band.

 

[variable114]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought of an album where the singing is not first rate, but I would still call it one of my 20 favorite albums of all time. Music from Big Pink by the Band..........the feel of that record is amazing, the songs are great, and while the singing is in tune but nothing special, the musicianship is phenomenal. Those boys could play. Love that record, and love that band.

damn why'd you have to go and love up the band?

don't know if you can tell that I'm a fan

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by variable114 /img/forum/go_quote.gif damn why'd you have to go and love up the band?

Well, taste comes in all shapes and sizes. Personally, I'm way into the Velvets, Beefheart, Waits, early Patti Smith and, of course, Dylan, but I've never had much use for the Band. But I wouldn't say that their "romance of the slow lane killed music by unleashing the Eagles or Tom Petty on us," though. At least, not aloud…

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif What you have to understand about songwriters like Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, is that generally when you're hearing a song you like by the composer with the rare exception of early acoustic dylan which for me is much better than electric dylan, that you are really hearing a PRODUCER'S VISION, they take very raw songs like Walk on the Wild Side, or Martha, and such like that that by the time the song is finished its nothing like it was at its conception.

you're shooting your credibility in the foot yet again. i'm just going to address Tom Waits here, because i happen to know more about his recording and performing process than the other artists you mention.

Tom Waits controls every single step of his music composition, from the instrumentation to the arrangements to the mix... all the way down to the recording space and the specific model (and model year) of mic's used for recording.

he can tell you which brand accordion to play for which song. in fact, he did. i knew the guy who played accordion for Frank's Wild Years and the subsequent Big Time tour, who told a story about how his instrument was destroyed (or lost, i don't remember) by the airlines on the way from Toronto to NYC. Waits told him which shop in queens to go to, one that only sold accordions, told him who to ask for and which kind to buy.

i'm a fan of virtuosity myself, as you can probably glean from my avatar. and while virtuosity is nothing without vision, vision can often make up for shortcomings in technical skill. i spent time at Berklee, and that place was filled with fantastic technicians who might as well have been inspirationless musical zombies.