[skree]

I'm new to audiophile grade headphones/earphones and don't really know all the terminology so bear with me lol

I've done the ophile thing with many things over the last 15 years, my car, my whole entertainment rig (few pcs, two hifi stacks, 7 consoles, 2 tvs, various other hardware at current count), books, models, other hobbies.. and the thing that strikes me with all these things is there's a point at which the increase in price becomes vastly greater than the increase in performance you get from it, and the differential usually increases exponentially. I realise that these things are subjective particularly with audio stuff but there's got to be a point where we distinguish between the audionut who just wants a really good sound, and the audiophile who has xty pairs of earphones costing xty hundreds of whatever the local currency is each and actually collects them, to use with extremely expensive source rigs that they also have many of

For me, even if i had the money, which i haven't, spending say, £250 on a pair of headphones is crazy, let alone some of the prices i've seen the last few days. Not criticising, far from it i can't think of much better to spend ones money on, but i couldn't do it, not after years of £7-15 sonys.. especially considering most earphones dont last a year for me as the cables end up breaking inside due to my regular, reasonably heavy use.

I've just ordered a pair of Sunrise AS-Feelings to go with my new portable source, a sony w100i walkman phone (yeah, i know, it's probably garbage although my old w810i was great) as it really started to show up a slight lack of quality with my old Sony EX-35s which have lasted longer than any earphones i've ever had at about 2 years. I'm prepared to find out that it's my source that's garbage and i have connected it up to my stack to find out what it's like at low volumes with an amp and it does sound ok. So i'm considering a Fiio e5 for it.

and after being to this site, i'm considering a set of AKG K240MkIIs (low imp.?) and a CMOYbb for my home use and to eventually customise the cmoy. Even the £90 of the AKGs is really stretching it but i'm happy to pay that for a really sparkling set of cans. Members of head-fi, all of you... my wallet hates you but my ears love you

I did consider a pair of PK1s for the portable, but they were just too expensive for me. For me, the price point was the decider and it was at the £57 AS-Charms i set my limit but then i asked here and was recommended the feelings and i'm much happier at their £30 price - the same price as the source.

I've got a good but relatively inexpensive stack here and it sounds good because i demoed each component and all of them together before i bought it. Never seen anywhere i can demo earbuds. Not that i'd want to stick a IEM that's been in a rillion other ears in mine 'cause i would not.

i guess the question is, just how much better do you get for each price step? and how much better is a really high end earphone like say a JVC FX700 than the Sunrise Audios i just bought? (ignoring the fact that one's a canalphone and the other isnt) are the differences as subtle as i'm hoping they are? lol

 

[Ra97oR]

Up to a point, you are paying for different sound signatures. But there is a large room for improvement from your current phones. Of course, the difference from moving from £60 headphones to a £120 pair will not be as big as from iBuds to £60 ones. Also, each phone sounds different to each other, so you might not even like it if you do upgrade. I suggest you listen before buying, or buy used so the loss will be minimized.

 

[skree]

You know of a place over here where we can demo decent earphones? about the only place to get proper audio gear here in Sheffield is richer sounds since Superfi closed

 

[Ra97oR]

Not really that there are any headphone shops with a demo room in UK, best will still be buying used and going to meets.

 

[Uncle Erik]

You can get to the point of diminishing returns quickly in this hobby - quite a few start out there. The AKGs you're looking at are good, but I'd look at something like a Sennheiser HD-600 or Beyerdynamic DT880. If you have to have a lot of bass, then maybe a Denon model. The more expensive ones are better and enjoyable, but I'd put a HD-600 as my baseline "good" pair of headphones. If they were all I had, I'd be happy.

I am a fan of dedicated headphone amps. Some nice class A power with an exceptionally clean power supply makes headphones wonderful. On the budget end (well, relatively), I like the Dynalo and M^3. If I bought a used HD-600 and built an amp, I could pull off a very nice sounding rig for $300-$500 USD.

Don't worry too much about digital sources. If you are hearing hash or noise (trust me, you don't need golden ears to notice this) then you might need a better source. If you're not hearing noise, then the pricey upgrades will mostly get you a fancy box. I like fancy boxes, but I'd rather build my own for $100 than four figures for a commercial one.

Skip the cables and tweaks. You'll hear a lot of claims and testimonials, but they're an occult item. The evidence for cables is equal to that for palmistry, ESP, ghosts, phrenology, alchemy, etc. The more you look the less you find. Further, cable mythology isn't even internally consistent. You'll find claims of one manufacturer conflicting with other manufacturers. And all of them will tell you that science and objective measurements are invalid. Ask any hard questions and you'll be tagged as "hateful." You get the idea.

One item that can help, however, is an isolation transformer. They will kill ground loops and take DC off the line. Assuming you have those problems in the first place, of course. You wouldn't need an "audiophile grade" isolation transformer, either. A $50 one designed to keep electronics hobbyists from frying themselves is fine.

Anyhow, if I were to go back to the point of diminishing returns, I'd buy a used HD-600 and build a M^3 (I like the active ground plane) with an isolation transformer inside just for the hell of it.

If you're curious about headphone audio, I strongly recommend taking a path like this. You could pull it off under £500 and I think you'd be thrilled with the sound. The only risk would be getting curious about the very expensive headphones.

 

[bangengeman]

Personally, at $200 (no shipping, taxes, etc), and you're already at probably 85-90% of what most here would consider "there". At that point, you're looking at a major plateau unless your ears are *that* sensitive. Above this price point, without serious amping, DAC and source upgrades, I think you'll be pretty much satisfied...................
 
............ Unless the people here convince you that you're not, which they don't *really* mean to. After that, well, sorry for your wallet.

 

[khaos974]

It depends on how much money you have IMHO, if you make 500k a year with no family to support, spending 50k on audio is very reasonnable, and you'd have to spend more sto hit the point of diminishing (return on investment).
But for headphones, I guess a good home setup would be, depending on your tastes:
- around $300 for headphones, either HD600/650, D2000, K701 or DT990
- same for an amp (some of the money is spent for technical merits and looks here), a dylanlo for example HA006
- around $100 for a decent soundcard.
And that's it, but the amp and the DAC are still a lot less important than the rest, prioritize spending on the transducer.

 

[skree]

my ears are not *that* sensitive. I can tell the difference between two components but as long as the sound is near to what i like (sparkly treble, punchy but not too loud bass, plenty of depth - soundstage) i either like it or get used to it.

I'm really into DIY electronics so the CMOY amps appeal to me - especially the mod i saw with dual opamps and class a biasing. I'm thinking cmoybb from JDS with that mod plus a bass pot. That's about as far as i'll go though with the DIY as with me the more complex it gets the exponentially more likely it is to go *BANG*. JDS's pre-built CMOYbb is very cheap if it's any good at all IMO. The idea i had was order a pre-built one as a guide and a couple of PCBs then go play I also kind of like the rough & ready looks. some of the stuff on this forum is absolutely beautiful but just wouldn't look right in my setup.

I've got a big thing against li-ion batteries in electronics - because they're almost never user replaceable cells they're usually proprietory in some way, so the CMOY really really appeals. bit big for portable use but o well. I guess with a CMOY power supply isnt a prob because for a home amp i'd just run it off a pack of some nice 2100 LSD aa's rather than a 250ma pp3. Pimetas look nice too.

i tend not to use earphones so much when i'm at home but i may do if i had a decent pair. Which is why i am loathe to buy a pair of sennheiser's finest - it's far far too much money to spend for something that i may not like, or may not use enough to justify its cost

Food for thought for sure. i'll give it more thought but i'm part yorkshireman part irishman it's anathema to my DNA to spend £500 on a headphone rig even if it is stunningly good.. will probably have to be done though

 

[Lazarus Short]

The Law of Dimishing Returns kicks in as soon as you abandon thrift stores, estates sales, garage sales, Craigslist, eBay, dumpsters, curbsides, and begin to frequent audio shops, even the second-hand ones.

 

[gsilver]

I got a pair of floor standing speakers that retailed for $200/speaker at a thrift store for $45 for the pair. They're pretty good, too.
 
Going above that, is diminishing return, which gets increasingly more steep the further up you go.

 

[skree]

The Law of Dimishing Returns kicks in as soon as you abandon thrift stores, estates sales, garage sales, Craigslist, eBay, dumpsters, curbsides, and begin to frequent audio shops, even the second-hand ones.

Heh Heh that's why my AS-Feelings and E5 are coming from ebay. We've got a fairly decent audio chain here in the UK that sells big brand gear at prices lower than you will see that item in any other store (richer sounds) but I know what you mean. I remember some years ago seeing a turntable that cost £75,000 ($125,000 ish). This was my first introduction to things getting way out of control. lol. My parents' house had cost that, a year earlier.

my vintage KEF speakers came from a skip - someone had THROWN THEM AWAY :eek: speakers from the days when people knew how to make speakers. Probably replaced with a godawful one-box or one of those stupid "home cinema" things. I'm only using them as rears on my 6 channel rig but thrown away makes me want to cry even now thinking about it.

I'm all for all the above, wonderful places to pick up cheap, rare, or unusual stuff but i'm prepared to pay some money out for quality gear that will last years. That is, if the shop assistant can prise the money out of my reluctant, white knuckled hands. I guess the law of diminishing returns is different for everybody *sigh* which don't help me.. i'll have to work out my own point to stop. This is not good. Or this is very good. dunno yet.

loving the RAH reference btw

 

[Lazarus Short]

Quote:

 
loving the RAH reference btw

You're about the first to have noticed.