[beeman458]

twylight, I hope your last post wasn't intended to get me to think you're a rational person?
 
You commented about headphone cables and the need to level the differences and that was all I was responding to.  You don't level sound level differences between headphone cables because sound level differences, are part of the difference a headphone cable brings to the table.  But since you're so up on electricity and it's production, transmission and distribution, I'll assume you work for the power company.  That said, I'm sure we won't need to discuss the need for stable power supply units and how the lack of the above can affect the quality of your sound, once you do decide to plug your gear into the wall outlet.
 

 

[BIG POPPA]

I am talking about experience with High End equipment and agree with scootermafia. Just check out the last to meets I have been to? The Woodinville meet and the Portland meet have had some really nice gear. Some people are just lucky enough to have it available when ever needed.
 
Quote:

 
Have you ascertained this with blind testing?
 
Please note that I am not saying that there is no difference between cables.
 
What I am saying is that unfortunately people often massively underestimate the power of auto-suggestion.

 

[beeman458]

What I am saying is that unfortunately people often massively underestimate the power of auto-suggestion.
 
The above is such a strawman argument as one could just as easily say; unfortunately, often people massively overestimate the power of auto-suggestion.
 
Both statements are correct.  Why?  Because they lack any context.
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html

This puts auto-suggestion into context.

 

[beeman458]

If you check back, earlier in the thread, I mentioned the wine factor.  My example mentioned the benefits provided by the now, "Three Buck Chuck."  At the same time, I discussed my wine price point.  The point of my above, FWIW, the article you linked to, doesn't lend "any" context to the comment regarding auto-suggestion being a "two-way" street.
 

 

[twylight]

Take a look at the inside of a speaker....see all that wire you didnt "upgrade"
 
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/magelect.htm
 
 
I clarified my post to you already.
 
Power cable =/= Power Supply, power supplies can matter, but not that much - the electronics have a very wide operational variance in most equipment.
 
the wine example is flawless and shows what is wrong with human perception of "facts"
 
To compare headphones properly you should level match across models, but as I stated before - the difference between headphones is real as well as speakers (and electrostatics) and should be the focus of any investment. Not cables.
 
 
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

Beeman, have you ever seen how fine the wire is in the voicecoil of a headphone?  They're very delicate and are never made from so-called audiophile materials.  So whatever you use as the headphone cable, the signal goes right into a cheap, thin copper wire.
 
Wine experts are far from infallible.  People taste what they expect to taste.  It's been proven over and over and over.

 

[The Monkey]

Beeman knows everything about everything.

 

[kboe]

Its ok Beeman458, their right and were wrong.  Other people do hold the key to our enlightenment and happiness!
 
Maybe one day us stupid people will just learn to accept things were told, despite our obvious evidence to the contrary.  In fact, I think I'll through away all my cds, (since I used my ears to pick out what I thought was good, stupid me) and download whatever is most popular on iTunes, until iTunes updates the most popular list, then I'll believe the new list of music is better and more correct than the last.  Ahhhhhh.  Progress.
 
 
Well I feel better!

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

FWIW, the fact you're having to level them, is telling you something is going on, causing a signal difference.  You don't line level changes as that's in effect, saying a change hasn't taken place as you take the change you say hasn't occurred, away.
 

Cables will of sometimes have different resistance and so present different loads.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Experts in all fields get it wrong, but are more likely to get it right. Beeman states wine experts repeatedly get it right, Uncle Erik shows that they also sometimes get it wrong. Both are correct. The two sides of the coin.
 
With regards to leveling of volume, that is important. If you level volume you are less likely to hear a difference between cables. If you do not level volume, you are more likely to hear a difference, in the volume. That in itself can make one cable sound better than another, because one cable usually the louder one, will open up the sound more, bring out background details and increase dynamics. But, does that really make one cable better than another? I would say no it does not, as all I need to do is adjust the volume on my amp and they sound the same again.

 

[kboe]

Is it impossible that we can hear differently?  Is it not possible that one person has ears that are more open to the improvement that cables bring?  Same idea of having an eye for art, or a touch for sculpture, or even the ear to learn piano without sheet music?
 
If thats true, how could you tell me I cant tell the differences in cables for my headphones.  It goes back to what I said before,  either Im lying, or stupid, so just tell me which one.

 

[rusitnpiece]

 
 
Quote: Beeman458

Forgive me but I Suwanee, if you or any of the anti-cable crowd were ever presented with a conversational two-way street, you'd get lost.

 
Charming. Once again you are the one who is correct. Try having a conversation yourself rather than stating the same thing over and over again.
 
As far as the argument over voice coils go this can be extended to that "High Grade" solder they use in all your components before the signal even gets to your headphone cables. I had to laugh when one of my best friends bought a 1m Monster Power Cable for his sound system in his basement. Never mind all that other cheapo cable running through the walls he put in when he wired the place.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Is it impossible that we can hear differently?  Is it not possible that one person has ears that are more open to the improvement that cables bring?

No, it's not impossible.  It is implausible though.  That's why we won't believe it until you give us some objective evidence.  Its not just you.  AFIK, no self proclaimed golden ear has actually demonstrated it.  Link me if I'm wrong.

 

[kboe]

Quote:

Quote:

No, it's not impossible.  It is implausible though.  That's why we won't believe it until you give us some objective evidence.  Its not just you.  AFIK, no self proclaimed golden ear has actually demonstrated it.  Link me if I'm wrong.

This is the whole point we "cable believers" are trying to make.  We dont have to prove our case to anybody.  Only our ears matter to us.  If I buy a $300.00 aftermarket upgrade cable, and I hear an improvement, what would I care if you don't hear it, what would I care if graphs cant show me the difference, what would I care if DBT show no difference?  I dont listen with your ears, I dont listen with graphs, and I dont listen with the ears of people who do DBT, and you dont listen with mine.  I may believe your not hearing the full potential of your system without addressing all the links in the chain, but what I think about your rig, and how you hear it matters not.  Only what you hear matters to you.    
 
What bothers us "cable believers" then?  Calling us liars.  When you say its all in my head, your calling me a liar.  When you say I could not have heard what I heard because you don't hear it, your calling me a liar.  When you point out that no DBT has ever showed that people can distinguish between cables, meaning what I heard was placebo, your calling me a liar.  Its that simple.
 
I have no reason to doubt you when you tell me you cant hear the difference.  I trust that your intelligent enough to understand what you hear, and to communicate that to me.  Do the same for me.