[vcoheda]

i know zanth wrote an extensive review in which he came to that conclusion. i have read others - they are not the majority - but there are enough to make you think that the viewpoint is more than just an extreme, unusual preference.

see this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...ghlight=HP1000

and this one (more recent but same opinion): http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...ghlight=HP1000

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1GTR /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please point a few out, I'd enjoy reading them. I imagine they're far and few between and the majority were probably based on meet impressions, which is the absolute worst environment to judge what the HP-1000 is capable of.

I've owned the HP-1, a pair of HP-2's (both cables), GS1000, MS-Pro and still have a pair of RS-1's (one balanced) and a PS-1 (almost forgot SR-325, SR-200, and HF-1). My opinions were not formed from meet impressions. The HP-1000 is a great headphone, and well worth the $600 +/- that they cost when I bought. I've had some really great listening sessions with them. But, when matched against other Grado's in an attempt to decide which ones I was keeping and which would go on the market, the HP-1000 was the one that went (this was well before today's inflated prices, so $$ wasn't the issue). I felt that the RS-1 was the better all-purpose headphone for me, and the PS-1 simply outclassed the HP-1000 every time I tried to compare them. The HP-1000 is very neutral, but not particularly transparent.

To use a visual analogy, think of a clear pane of glass that slightly distorts focus. It does so all at colors, and so appears neutral, but is in fact concealing some of the visual detail. Now imagine a tinted glass that's in perfect focus. Here, some of the visual frequencies will be bolstered more than others, but nothing will be concealed. Transparency, but colored. A great example of this is the Sony R10, which is one of the most transparent headphones of all, but not particularly neutral. The one that appears to get both transparency and neutrality right is the HE90/ES1 combination. But I've digressed.

Sometimes I wish I could regress to simpler times, when I thought the neutrality of the HP-1000 was the best of breed among headphones. But I've outgrown that, and need more out of a top headphone than the HP-1000 can deliver. These days, I try the HP-1000, and I'm either bored, or annoyed by its "veil" (and it is veiled in direct comparison to the PS-1). The neutrality of the HP-1000 comes at a price, and that price is transparency. Next to a faster headphone, the HP-1000 sounds a bit muddy. So, I'm very glad for the people who still think it's the best of the Grado's, but that's an opinion I no longer hold (although I'm sure my earlier enthusiasm for that headphone appears in my older posts).

Current pricing of the HP-1000 reflects supply and demand, of course. And, looking back at my own earlier enthusiasm for the headphone, I can see where the demand would come from. Looking at my later disillusionment with the HP-1000, I can also see how a continuing supply can also happen. However, I will admit that I never in my wildest dreams imagined the pricing of the HP-1000 that's happening now. The headphone just isn't worth that kind of money, IMO.

 

[vcoheda]

thanks for the thoughtful response.

 

[F1GTR]

Thank you for those impressions Hirsch. I really appreciate you taking the time to post them.

I haven't heard the RS-1 yet. My first Grado was the HF-1 and I was so enamored with the Grado sound that I quickly upgraded to the HP2's w/ ultrawide cable, courtesy of jjcha. After having them for a few months GoRedwings19 lent me his PS-1's and instantly I preferred them over the HP2's, so I sought out a pair and sold off the HP's.

Your analogy with the window is spot on with my impressions of the HP2 vs PS1. I know exactly what you're referring to when you mention the HP's veil, it is there but it is very slight. The PS1 clearly has more low level detail retrieval, more bass, and just plain more fun but the HP2, many times, had a somewhat more cohesive sound to my ears. I assume that's its neutrality because almost everything sounded "good" to me through the HP2's. Occasionally I find the extra detail from the PS1's to be a bit cumbersome. I appreciate that it is more revealing but sometimes that can be a double edged sword with poor recordings. I was never bored at all with the HP2's but I agree that they sound muddy compared to the PS1's. I found through a/b'ing the two that I liked hearing that extra cough in the background, and the between the song set talk on many of my live Dead recordings that the PS1 gives me.

 

[robm321]

I got a chance to compare the PS-1 and HP-2 at the last meet.

Still like the "melt away" transparency and grainlessness of the HP-2. They simply melt away and leave you with the music. Elegant and simply sublime - especially when the recording is up to the task.

The PS-1 still has the "glossed over" sound to it, that gives it a lush and artificialness to it - especially in the treble - but enjoyable. The bass is excessive although tight. Every CD I listen to with the PS-1 sounds the same. My goal in audio is to get to the heart of the recording and the HP-2 does that... with the Melos (which is real synergy - the HPA-1 don't do these phones justice, sorry Joe). These phones are incredibly hard to drive right. They will sound good out of anything but to make them really sing is another story.

I've never changed my mind on a headphones sound (since the sound doesn't change), and if I go down to 1 headphone (K-1000) which I have no plans to, I'd still always state and feel the HP-2 was a bargain at its current price. Especially when compared to the L3000 and PS-1 these days. I prefer the HP-2s to both.

I also feel the RS-1 is a bargain but is outclassed by the GS-1000 in almost every area. I've owned the RS-1 for years and still say it's a wonderful phone but sold it and never looked back.

I guess it depends on what your goal is. Euphony or getting as close to the recording as possible without adding to it.

Listening to Decemberists now through the HPs

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've owned the HP-1, a pair of HP-2's (both cables), GS1000, MS-Pro and still have a pair of RS-1's (one balanced) and a PS-1 (almost forgot SR-325, SR-200, and HF-1). My opinions were not formed from meet impressions. The HP-1000 is a great headphone, and well worth the $600 +/- that they cost when I bought. I've had some really great listening sessions with them. But, when matched against other Grado's in an attempt to decide which ones I was keeping and which would go on the market, the HP-1000 was the one that went (this was well before today's inflated prices, so $$ wasn't the issue). I felt that the RS-1 was the better all-purpose headphone for me, and the PS-1 simply outclassed the HP-1000 every time I tried to compare them. The HP-1000 is very neutral, but not particularly transparent. To use a visual analogy, think of a clear pane of glass that slightly distorts focus. It does so all at colors, and so appears neutral, but is in fact concealing some of the visual detail. Now imagine a tinted glass that's in perfect focus. Here, some of the visual frequencies will be bolstered more than others, but nothing will be concealed. Transparency, but colored. A great example of this is the Sony R10, which is one of the most transparent headphones of all, but not particularly neutral. The one that appears to get both transparency and neutrality right is the HE90/ES1 combination. But I've digressed. Sometimes I wish I could regress to simpler times, when I thought the neutrality of the HP-1000 was the best of breed among headphones. But I've outgrown that, and need more out of a top headphone than the HP-1000 can deliver. These days, I try the HP-1000, and I'm either bored, or annoyed by its "veil" (and it is veiled in direct comparison to the PS-1). The neutrality of the HP-1000 comes at a price, and that price is transparency. Next to a faster headphone, the HP-1000 sounds a bit muddy. So, I'm very glad for the people who still think it's the best of the Grado's, but that's an opinion I no longer hold (although I'm sure my earlier enthusiasm for that headphone appears in my older posts). Current pricing of the HP-1000 reflects supply and demand, of course. And, looking back at my own earlier enthusiasm for the headphone, I can see where the demand would come from. Looking at my later disillusionment with the HP-1000, I can also see how a continuing supply can also happen. However, I will admit that I never in my wildest dreams imagined the pricing of the HP-1000 that's happening now. The headphone just isn't worth that kind of money, IMO.

Hirsch, while I respect your opinion, I must in this case side with Rob. I have also directly compared the HP-1000 to the PS-1, GS1000, L3000, RS-1 and RS-2. In direct comparison to the PS-1, I heard absolutely no veil -- and I know what a veil sounds like, I hear it quite badly on the HD650 every time I listen to it. Back to the comparison, the PS-1 would be my second choice over the HP1000 out of the headphones I mentioned above. However, what sways my preference to the HP1000 is the fact that the PS-1 simply has extremely exaggerated bass, which overpowered the lower midrange and just sounded simply unnatural. If I had to say one of them had a veil, I would say the PS-1. While it really dosen't, the overpowered lower midrange can sound similar to a veil depending on the music. The L3000 trailed behind the PS-1 imo, the only thing it did better was the bass. Other than that, it just sounded kind of fuzzy .... not a veil fuzzy, hard to explain. It was good but IMO, other than the bass did not compare to the PS-1 or HP1000. My next favorite was the GS1000, followed by the RS-1 and RS-2. Now, in my humble opinion, both the RS-1 and RS-2 are simply outclassed by all the other headphones I mentioned. They didn't even compare. I understand many other people love them and some even prefer them to one or more of the other mentioned headphones. That is perfectly fine. While I personally do not share the opinion, I do understand that we all hear differently. Not necessarily better or worse than other people, just different due to the variations in the human ear, preferences and perception. I also believe the HP1000 is very good on the details. Someone else had said that they are still able to hear all the same details they can on the K1000, but the HP1000 simply has a more liquid presentation of them. I agree with that 100%.

EDIT:

!!!!! Why does it say Banned under F1GTR's name?!?!! !!!

 

[vcoheda]

that's what happens when you don't pay the bills.

 

[003]

What and who is that a response to?

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not IMO, perhaps it was very bad amp/source synergy with them but they were EXTREMELY bright and thin by direct comparison. They had the bowl pads, didn't get a chance to try other pads however.

Ouch - cannot judge the RS-1's with bowls, that really is a terrible overgeneralization. Gotta listen with flats and if you heard the RS-1's on my moth with electraprint output iron you might think differently. Im with Jpak on this one.

I love the darn things, and wouldnt have sold them if I could afford having such a luxury that I barely have time to use. However, if I have a shot at either HP-1000's or L3000's, I probably go with the leatherheads, its just a preference thing.

 

[cantsleep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What and who is that a response to?

F1GTR ?

 

[003]

I believe I did hear them at the meet on your Moth ... with bowls though. I would be interested to hear them with flats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantsleep /img/forum/go_quote.gif F1GTR ?

Well what does he mean by "not paying the bills"? How was he banned? It must have happened just today because that post is from this morning!

 

[cantsleep]

hp1000 is just a little better than ms2i
and ps1 is just a little better than 325i
so if you cant find a pair, dont stress too much.

btw, he90 should be about.. just a little better than 650, too

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hirsch, while I respect your opinion, I must in this case side with Rob. I have also directly compared the HP-1000 to the PS-1, GS1000, L3000, RS-1 and RS-2. In direct comparison to the PS-1, I heard absolutely no veil -- and I know what a veil sounds like, I hear it quite badly on the HD650 every time I listen to it. Back to the comparison, the PS-1 would be my second choice over the HP1000 out of the headphones I mentioned above. However, what sways my preference to the HP1000 is the fact that the PS-1 simply has extremely exaggerated bass, which overpowered the lower midrange and just sounded simply unnatural. If I had to say one of them had a veil, I would say the PS-1. While it really dosen't, the overpowered lower midrange can sound similar to a veil depending on the music. The L3000 trailed behind the PS-1 imo, the only thing it did better was the bass. Other than that, it just sounded kind of fuzzy .... not a veil fuzzy, hard to explain. It was good but IMO, other than the bass did not compare to the PS-1 or HP1000. My next favorite was the GS1000, followed by the RS-1 and RS-2. Now, in my humble opinion, both the RS-1 and RS-2 are simply outclassed by all the other headphones I mentioned. They didn't even compare. I understand many other people love them and some even prefer them to one or more of the other mentioned headphones. That is perfectly fine. While I personally do not share the opinion, I do understand that we all hear differently. Not necessarily better or worse than other people, just different due to the variations in the human ear, preferences and perception. I also believe the HP1000 is very good on the details. Someone else had said that they are still able to hear all the same details they can on the K1000, but the HP1000 simply has a more liquid presentation of them. I agree with that 100%. EDIT: !!!!! Why does it say Banned under F1GTR's name?!?!! !!!

You are totally entitled to your impressions, but keep in mind that your impressions essentially stem from a hour or so of quick a/b'ing at the meet at my place with tons of noise around, vs. the endless hours and months and years that hirsch has owned all those grados and compared them in the comfort of his own silent home with his own system. Ultimately we are all glad you are enjoying your cans, but I just wanted to point out the context of Hirsch's impressions in comparison to yours.

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well what does he mean by "not paying the bills"? How was he banned? It must have happened just today because that post is from this morning!

Its okay!!! You don't have to get all flustered and all curious george about it!!! The world will not end!!! Dont bother any mods because it is policy not to talk about bans!!!

 

[vcoheda]

it was a joke. when you stop paying the bills, you get cut off (or banned). but i have no idea what happened and as stated unless you were somehow involved you will not know either as per head-fi policy. maybe he will be back; maybe not. the headphone listening continues nonetheless.