[10068]

So according to "tube connesuirs", they are not the Golden Age of tubes, but certainly nothing to scoff at, either?

Because I really did spend time getting acquainted with these other great tubes from the 50s and 60s sacd lover so graciously sent me, but to be honest the original tubes sounded so much better....

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek Okay okay okay. SO... eh.... *brain chugging along slowly* the tubes that originally come with the Woo.. are... new production? or New Old Stock?

Both!

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover Both!

I can't take this much longer!

 

[KZEE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 Old stock. the driver tubes are made in the seventies (late) and the 6080 maybe in the early 70's. John

I was supplied with a GE 6as7 with my Woo - I don't know if it's NOS or not. Sacd lover was kind enough to supply me with a Tung Sol NOS 6080, and I prefer the sound of the 6080 over the 6as7, and in turn I prefer the sound of the Tung Sol 5998 over the 6080.
My white label PQ Amperex 6922 tubes came in, and after only 24 hours or so of burn in in my Woo they're sounding very very nice. Bass is the best I've heard in the Woo, and the clarity, tonal color, and musicality are excellent so far. If the tubes open up a bit more and dynamics increase just a bit then the money I've spent on the Amperex's will have been well worth it. The Amperex's replaced a pair of late 60's NOS 6dj8's that I had been using, and if I didn't have the Amperex's I could easily live with the Sylvanias. Although the Sylvies are a bit soft on the top end, none-the-less to my ears they're a very musical sounding tube that go for about a quarter of the price of a set of Amperex's. I haven't had a chance to audition them, but I've heard that NOS 7308 Sylvanias are more extended in the highs and lows than 6dj8/6922 Sylvanias and I might see if I can't score a pair to see what they're like.

 

[sacd lover]

The three original tubes that came with my Woo 3 were the pair of sovtek newer production 6922's and a nos GE 6080. So you had both a new production tube and a nos tube. The sovtek isnt a bad tube but I dont feel its anywhere near a great tube either. I have stated before I dont particularly like the 6dj8/6922 tube or its variants period... so maybe thats why. There is a big difference in nos vs new production tubes like a 6sn7 IMO.

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover The three original tubes that came with my Woo 3 were the pair of sovtek newer production 6922's and a nos GE 6080. So you had both a new production tube and a nos tube. The sovtek isnt a bad tube but I dont feel its anywhere near a great tube either. I have stated before I dont particularly like the 6dj8/6922 tube or its variants period... so maybe thats why. There is a big difference in nos vs new production tubes like a 6sn7 IMO.

so what would you suggest instead of 6922?

i never tried the 6080 with the other tubes you sent me. i have only done all "sacd lover" tubes or all "stock" tubes. so perhaps i should try the 6080 with the tubes you sent? the other GE ones? because maybe this is just evidence that i don't like the power tube you sent at all

how good (objectively) is the 6080?

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek so what would you suggest instead of 6922? i never tried the 6080 with the other tubes you sent me. i have only done all "sacd lover" tubes or all "stock" tubes. so perhaps i should try the 6080 with the tubes you sent? the other GE ones? because maybe this is just evidence that i don't like the power tube you sent at all how good (objectively) is the 6080?

Thats one of those unanswerable questions. First, it depends on the brand of tube. Secondly, with the same brand, I like the tung sol 6080's but I like the regular tung sol 6as7 even more. The tung sol 5998 you will be getting is better than either of the other two IMO. I found some old white boxed 6922's I am going to give you too. These were new when I got them and have been buried in a drawer for 15 years or so.

As for the 6922... you can try the 6dj8, 7308 or some other nos 6922's in addition to the ones I am sending, if you want to experiment further. But if you like the new production sovtek.... stay with that tube and save yourself some money.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

I think Wei switches it up a bit with caps and tubes in the Woo. I got a pair of JAN Philips 6922s and a GE 6080 with mine, neither of which seem to be much to get excited about, but they would both be considered NOS. The older Amperex Bugle Boys with half the life left in them seem much better than the newer but still old Philips tubes. Unfortunently that's my only reference point as I don't have the money to go after those rediculously priced 6922s on ebay ;P

 

[10068]

ok ok ok. i think i figured something out. i was always using the 6as7 earlier. maybe i am just not in the camp that enjoys these tubes or something. because the second i put in your 6080 sacd lover (yours, not the one shipped with the Woo.), my smile lit up like a christmas tree and i cackled maniacally when Ashes Of The Wake began to play. DETAIL! WOAH! BASS!!!!

hmmm.

it has come to my attention that, in comparison to this 6080, the two 6as7 tubes had pretty much a veil over the entire sound spectrum.

oh well.

in any case, the 6080 + the GE tubes is sounding pretty sweet. i can't tell much difference between the NOS GE and the 6922 that came with the Woo, but i figure i'll err on the side of you guys and go with the NOS GE

and i thought it sounded fantastic before..........

seems we're just getting started

::drool::

So the 5998 is more of the same, but better? (in comparison to the 6080) wow. tubes rock. screw solid state

 

[10068]

Yada, thank you for your wonderfully comprehensive answer to my uneducated newbie question

And a crash course in tubes to boot! Awesome. Great post man, really.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Yada and the amp may need to be re-biased when tubes are changed.

How does one do that?

Also, where might I find a good tube tester? Currently my "scientific test" is listening to make sure there's no hum (there was on a couple that broke in transit), and then making sure they glow with the same brightness

 

[Jon L]

Hmm. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a 6922/6dj8/7308 tube that I liked Less than the Sovtek 6922..
There's definitely a lot more music to be had in that tube family than the Sovtek..

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek How does one do that? Also, where might I find a good tube tester? Currently my "scientific test" is listening to make sure there's no hum (there was on a couple that broke in transit), and then making sure they glow with the same brightness

Your amp is self biasing... you dont need to rebias the tubes as the amp will do it automatically. Tell me where you can get a good tester that will truely hold up. I have been looking

for one too.

 

[Yada]

Sounds like you might have a self-biasing amp - which is nice. In some amps you need some test equipment and some know how to do the biasing; ALSO, BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN TRYING TO BIAS OR DOING ANYTHING INSIDE AN AMP - There can be lots of voltage inside amps and it can be DANGEROUS AND POSSIBLY LETHAL. BEST TO CONSULT THE MANUFACTURER IF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO BIAS AN AMP.

Tube testing is somewhat easier and safer. Shopping for tube testers is a trip all by itself. Tube testers like tubes were manufactured quite a bit more in the past than the present. You can type in "tube tester" at eBay and find a small ton of them. One of the most popular brands was Hickok. This web site will tell you about various models:
http://www.tubetesters.info/index.shtml

Tube testers often had tubes inside them and they generally needed to be calibrated (perhaps every couple years or so). So, unless you get a calibrated tester you might not be measuring with quite the accuracy you would like. There were some solid state models made toward the end of the tube tester era that might be worth looking into.

Testers can go for a few hundred dollars or more and the testing process is a bit time consuming and tedious. The price reflects the condition of the tester and also the types of tubes it can test and the tests it can run.

One of the more popular high end models was the Hickok 539C; if you get one of these in good shape and you get the manual, you can pretty much teach yourself the process. If you want to quickly figure out pretty much anything about tubes testers, testing, or tubes try the tube forum on at http://www.audioasylum.com; there are lots of people there with a ton of knowledge (and opinions, so be careful), and they will generally be very helpful.

I know one audiophile who tested a bunch of tubes and carefully marked the test results on small labels or at least identified each tube with a small label and then recorded the test results on a piece of paper. Years later his investment in primo tubes had appreciated quite a bit since tube prices have definitely gone up over the years; but when he went to sort through his tubes he found that the labels had lost their adhesive and fallen off the tubes. If you are really into it I think you need to have a numbering scheme and label each tube with a unique number using a permanent Sharpie and then enter the test results and listening comments in a spreadsheet. The alternative to all this is just take your chances with highly rated sellers on Agon and eBay and skip the expense and time required to test. On the other hand, if you have the time and money, it can be another fun aspect of the audio hobby.

 

[jamato8]

One thing to remember about tube testers, for those who have not used them, is that like tubes, they are not exact. I have about 12 testers, some I have calibrated and a couple of my military ones done by an excellent repairman/calibrater in Phoenix. If you are within 5 to 10 percent with each tester you will be in the right area. Also, mutual conductance gives you an idea about the tube but not its life nor current draw, which to me is more important if the MC is in the right area. I have a 439C that I have 3 digital meters attached to so I can set the correct bias and then read the actual current draw. The current draw of each tube, is nice to know as this will also let you know how they will bias up, good to know even in a preamp. For power tubes only a few will check the tubes at working voltages of 400 or more volts but even at that I find that at the most tube testers plate voltage of 150 volts will get you in the right area.

I love the build quality of the Military testers but most give you a percentage type reading, which can be converted to mutual conductance but you need to know the numbers to do so. For most people the Hickoks, the most commonly available better tester, in the civilian model will work great for many years.

Just some thoughts on the matter.

John

 

[Yada]

Fellow Head-fiers, I'd direct your detailed tube tester questions to jamato8; I believe his comments show lots of good experience, knowledge, and insight.