[David58117]

It's probably an unfortunate title, but it's honestly how I feel.  When a player offers wifi, free apps such as pandora/last.fm/slacker, numerous radio apps with the ability to record programs, has a service (Rhapsody) that for $10 a month puts millions of songs at your fingertips AND gives you the ability to download them via wifi instantly to your device for when you're away from a hotspot - what pmp is comparable to it?  
 
I don't mean to sound like a "fanboy" or anything, but when people recommend other players (such as various cowon, or the Clip+/Fuze), and then when I look them up and realize they don't have something as beneficial as wifi and apps - is what they give over what I listed in the first paragraph really amazing enough to forgo that all?  
 
I recently bought the clip+ due to recommendations of its "superior" sound quality...i've tried my ety ER4S, AKG K701s, and each and every time the ipod had it beat, the sound stage was wider and instruments were more clearer.  If sound quality is a major gripe, there's always the $10 LOD from fiio.   
 
So my question - what areas do other pmp's beat the ipod, and is it enough to forgo all the things the ipod has to offer? 
 
Please don't say "sound quality" unless you've heard both! 
 

 

[zenpunk]

I know those kind of  thread are better ignored but what about better files support, equalizer, ability to customize sound, longer battery life, better screen, not being tied up to iTunes/Apple....Personally I only need something that play music and occasionally videos that sounds great. While the Touch sounds very good I find it slightly sterile for my taste. But yeah! It's a great player...enjoy yours.

 

[tds101]

Enjoy your iPod, different strokes for different folks I say.

 

[chnsawBrutality]

I found the sound quality was better on my rockboxed clip when I compared to my iPhone 3Gs.  Especially the bass, it was tighter and didn't drag like the iPhone's bass.
 
The iPod Touch is a great device though, I'd have a hard time getting through my day without an iPhone.

 

[David58117]

 
Quote:

I know those kind of  thread are better ignored but what about better files support, equalizer, ability to customize sound, longer battery life, better screen, not being tied up to iTunes/Apple....Personally I only need something that play music and occasionally videos that sounds great. While the Touch sounds very good I find it slightly sterile for my taste. But yeah! It's a great player...enjoy yours.

Why would this thread be better ignored?  I'm not trying to trick anyone, or start a flame war, I'm just honestly trying to discuses other portable music players in relation to the ipod touch.  I've seen too much ipod bashing and comments such as "the ipod doesn't have any useful features" - we'll, lets discus those "useless features!" 
 
You're right in that the ipod doesn't support flac, come with a parametric equalizer, and that it requires the installation of itunes.  However, personally, considering what the ipod does that other players do not (wifi, tons of free music apps, Rhapsody, allowing me to link my icomposition page to my pmp, set up a schedule to record my favorite radio programs, stream thousands of radio stations around the world (many even at 320kbps)) - you would have to place a HUGE weight on flac, parametric eq, and itunes in order to tip the scale away from the ipod...in my opinion.
 
Regarding battery life - I just skimmed the article, but here's from the cnet reviews:
 
"Apple has reined in its battery life estimates a bit from the previous generation, possibly because of the increased demands of the faster processor or the inclusion of new technologies such as Bluetooth. What was once a 36-hour rating for music playback has been whittled down to 30 hours."
 
"Cowon rates the S9's battery life at an astonishing 55 hours for audio and 11 hours for video. Of course, when you crank up the screen brightness, turn on the EQ, and start streaming music over Bluetooth, those numbers likely plummet, but it's still worth a tip of the hat to Cowon for raising the bar on battery life under best-case conditions. CNET Labs test results found the S9 realistically capable of an average of only 36 hours of continuous audio playback (still excellent by most standards), but validated Cowon's claim of 11 hours of video. "
 
http://reviews.cnet.com/portable-video-players-pvps/cowon-s9-16gb/4505-6499_7-33450412-2.html?tag=rvwBody
http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/apple-ipod-touch-third/4505-6490_7-33770781-2.html?tag=rvwBody
 
So 30 hours vs. 36 according to them and whatever they were doing while testing it...
 
I can't comment about the screen because honestly I don't care about it.  I don't watch videos on it, but ever since netflix released an app that allows you to stream netflix movies for free over wifi, I've been very tempted to try it...maybe later I'll comment.
 
 
edit -
 
chnsaw - I haven't rockboxed my clip+ yet, but I'm under the impression that it just allows for greater eq and sound customization...not that it would automatically improve the sound quality by itself?  I've read some posts earlier about it bricking for a few days but then usually coming back, that's not something I want to risk if it's true.  Besides, I don't really tinker with sound when I'm at the gym, outside running, doing yardwork, or unable to sleep at night but the wife insists on cuddling (marriage!). 

 

[Darksyde]

Update:
 
The Cowon J3 plays for 64 hours of audio playback.
 
The new iPod Touch plays for 40.

 

[zenpunk]

I think you fail to understand that all the "wonderful" bell and whistles the iPod has to offer are useless to me and many people, so I couldn't care less about the many pointless zillion apps. All I want is to be able to listen to MY music and enjoy the best  possible sound. I know! it is hard to imagine....Call me old-fashioned if you want.

 

[David58117]

Quote:

I think you fail to understand that all the "wonderful" bell and whistles the iPod has to offer are useless to me and many people, so I couldn't care less about the many pointless zillion apps. All I want is to be able to listen to MY music and enjoy the best  possible sound. I know! it is hard to imagine....Call me old-fashioned if you want.

??
 
But "all the useless apps" I named are precisely about being able to listen to your own music, so I don't get it.  Everything I named has been music related, I purposely left out things such as news apps, web apps, games, etc,,,heck, even some of my posts on here were done from breaks during nursing school on my ipod touch while listening to rhapsody.  Even my drug reference book is on my ipod and has been indispensable during clinicals and class.  There's tons of medical study material available on it as well...but I purposely left all that out to focus on the musical aspect of it, which is selling the ipod incredibly short. 
 
Here's what I said again:
 
"When a player offers wifi, free apps such as pandora/last.fm/slacker, numerous radio apps with the ability to record programs, has a service (Rhapsody) that for $10 a month puts millions of songs at your fingertips AND gives you the ability to download them via wifi instantly to your device for when you're away from a hotspot - what pmp is comparable to it?"
 
The focus of this thread is music only..

 

[dirkpitt45]

Don't see the point of this thread really. Your typical "apple is awesome vs no its not" stuff. 
 
I have a zune hd, it has a nicer screen, is potentially far cheaper (picked up a 32gb for $179 after some searching), the audio out sounds better (never tried a LOD on a touch though), its smaller, and the battery seems to last longer. I live in Canada though, so I can't have a zune pass or pretty much all of the apps, but that doesn't matter in pmp really. Don't really see the point of the radio stuff you've mentioned. Why listen to lower quality streamed files then your own music? 
 
Why do you want millions of songs at your finger tips? Is that really relevant? If you have a touch, you have a computer, which also has access to millions of songs "at your finger tips". Not to mention you'd be hard pressed to actually listen to a million songs. Say ~3mins each so thats 3million minutes, ~50k hours, ~2k days, ~ 5 years of constant listening. You reach a point of redundancy, right now I've got almost 12 days of total music, and it's more then enough. You're glorifying something that really isn't that great, much the way apple markets their devices. 
 
If you only want to talk music, then the ipod touch is a complete waste of money. It's huge, easily breakable, battery life is meh, and it has a really high gb/cost ratio. Plus you have to deal with itunes, and not to mention the device is ridiculously over-censored and really isn't that great unless you jailbreak it. 
 
Apple caters to people who don't want to deal with the DIY parts of many other devices (and software), and they're very successful with that. With a little bit of effort you can save money and have something better. The rockboxed clip+ was mentioned, which is probably a great pmp. The zune hd is workable, but is it great? No not at all, I can think of many things that would make it better. But its cheaper (relatively), sounds good, looks good, and does everything I need it to. 
 
If you like the touch, good for you. Not everyone else wants one because there are many different (and arguably better) choices out there. The touch also has the feeling of inclusion, I know many people who bought one simply because "everyone else has one so it must be awesome". The touch is not purely a pmp, which is not a bad thing, it's a jack of all trades, of sorts. I don't need a bunch of useless radio stations with more subscriptions; I can buy music at home, I don't need apps; my computer is exponentially more powerful and useful. I also carry around a smart-phone now (htc eris), which can do alot of what the touch does. So why carry around devices that overlap? 

 

[llegoz]

The ipod is a good MP3 player. I wont deny it that, I have an ipod and an iphone and I like them. But its not the best and its very censored. I hate iTunes, I've had way to many problems with it. No EQ, battery life is whatevs. I hardly use any of the music apps, much less any other apps, I just dont like them. Low quality streaming isnt my thing. Its nice to be able to listen to your music and surf the internet all on the go, but Id rather have a Cowon. I love my iphone, but as an MP3 player, ehhhh.... When I want to jam, thats all I want to do. Listen to music, maybe watch a short video or something, and thats it.
 
Enjoy your ipod, its a good product, I enjoy mine. But I also enjoy my Cowon way more.

 

[David58117]

 
Quote:

Don't see the point of this thread really. Your typical "apple is awesome vs no its not" stuff. 
 
I have a zune hd, it has a nicer screen, is potentially far cheaper (picked up a 32gb for $179 after some searching), the audio out sounds better (never tried a LOD on a touch though), its smaller, and the battery seems to last longer. I live in Canada though, so I can't have a zune pass or pretty much all of the apps, but that doesn't matter in pmp really. Don't really see the point of the radio stuff you've mentioned. Why listen to lower quality streamed files then your own music? 
 
Why do you want millions of songs at your finger tips? Is that really relevant? If you have a touch, you have a computer, which also has access to millions of songs "at your finger tips". Not to mention you'd be hard pressed to actually listen to a million songs. Say ~3mins each so thats 3million minutes, ~50k hours, ~2k days, ~ 5 years of constant listening. You reach a point of redundancy, right now I've got almost 12 days of total music, and it's more then enough. You're glorifying something that really isn't that great, much the way apple markets their devices. 
 
If you only want to talk music, then the ipod touch is a complete waste of money. It's huge, easily breakable, battery life is meh, and it has a really high gb/cost ratio. Plus you have to deal with itunes, and not to mention the device is ridiculously over-censored and really isn't that great unless you jailbreak it. 
 
Apple caters to people who don't want to deal with the DIY parts of many other devices (and software), and they're very successful with that. With a little bit of effort you can save money and have something better. The rockboxed clip+ was mentioned, which is probably a great pmp. The zune hd is workable, but is it great? No not at all, I can think of many things that would make it better. But its cheaper (relatively), sounds good, looks good, and does everything I need it to. 
 
If you like the touch, good for you. Not everyone else wants one because there are many different (and arguably better) choices out there. The touch also has the feeling of inclusion, I know many people who bought one simply because "everyone else has one so it must be awesome". The touch is not purely a pmp, which is not a bad thing, it's a jack of all trades, of sorts. I don't need a bunch of useless radio stations with more subscriptions; I can buy music at home, I don't need apps; my computer is exponentially more powerful and useful. I also carry around a smart-phone now (htc eris), which can do alot of what the touch does. So why carry around devices that overlap? 

 
 
Instead of "apple is awesome/no it's not" - lets just deal with facts.  Instead of trying to rationalizing why a particular feature isn't useful, I'm more interested in what your chosen player does that would make a buyer choose it instead of the ipod.  I've named what I feel are the significant music related pluses of the ipod - what do other players have?  Again - don't say "sound quality" unless you've heard both and compared (as I have with the Clip+), don't say "well that wouldn't be useful," tell me what areas your player excels in that the ipod doesn't.
 
Regarding the "millions of songs" comment - I'm not talking about listening to a million songs - I'm referring to having access to a few million songs.  For example, do you plan to rip your library to your device?  I find it much easier to stream/download only what I want rather than put my 1500+ cd collection on a portable device.  Ever wanted to listen to a cd you forgot to put on your device?  Didn't have room to put?  New cd ever come out of a favorite band that you wanted to hear?  Anyone ever mention a song you "just had to hear" ?  Ever wanted an easy way to discover a new genre, or find similar artists to favorites (with full discography/top rated tracks)?  All of this while on the go, or in bed at night is a major plus, in my mind. 
 
Regarding the lower quality radio comment - I swear I said many stations are in 320kbps, which is definitely not low quality.  I listen to a lot of talk radio, and I for one at least love putting a genre station on and discovering new artists that way.  Being able to record radio programs is also nice.  And that's not a subscription service.   
 
 
Anyway, I'm really hoping I don't just get Apple bashing in this thread.  I already said - lets deal with facts only.  Every pmp has something going for it that makes someone decide to pick it instead of the alternative, I picked the ipod (and Clip+), I said why I did with examples of my uses of the device.  Why did you choose your device?  

 

[David58117]

Quote:

The ipod is a good MP3 player. I wont deny it that, I have an ipod and an iphone and I like them. But its not the best and its very censored. I hate iTunes, I've had way to many problems with it. No EQ, battery life is whatevs. I hardly use any of the music apps, much less any other apps, I just dont like them. Low quality streaming isnt my thing. Its nice to be able to listen to your music and surf the internet all on the go, but Id rather have a Cowon. I love my iphone, but as an MP3 player, ehhhh.... When I want to jam, thats all I want to do. Listen to music, maybe watch a short video or something, and thats it.
 
Enjoy your ipod, its a good product, I enjoy mine. But I also enjoy my Cowon way more.

 
Thanks for your post. 
 
I have mine jailbroke, the only benefit that really gives me is multitask (since apple didn't extend it to the 2nd gen), otherwise I don't really use the app store enough to notice/care about any censorship.  If I was a developer, things would be different, but as just a consumer interested in music...no.  I honestly haven't had any problems with itunes, and there are many high quality audio streams available, so that's not an issue for me.  
 
You make me really want to try out a Cowon, I just don't know where it will fit in!!!!!!   
 

 

[rawrster]

This will probably eventually turn into a haters vs fanboys thread or some sort eventually..
 
However there are a couple reasons I do not have a touch. First off they do not support flac but alac instead and I have no desire to convert my flac to alac. They are not drag and drop but instead need some kind of program such as itunes. They are popular enough where people develop plugins or other programs to work for linux which is what I use but I'm not sure if they support the touch very well. There is no parametric EQ. There are some earphones that I need an EQ for to be able to enjoy them such as my Eterna. An EQ is something that helps. Battery life is not as good as a J3. I've gotten around 30 or so of playing time by the time it hit the 50% or so mark so it should have 55 or so at minimum. Also there is no expansion slot.
 
I don't care for wifi, apps or any of that stuff. Some people are and it's useful for them but not for me. For me I just want something that plays my music and has good battery life. Apps, wifi, radio apps, Rhaspody would all be useless for me. The only times I've ever used the raido on any of my players was just to test that it works.
 
Those are my reasons for not choosing an itouch and all of them are valid.

 

[nvkid909]

What's better than an iPod touch? Well, it hasn't arrived yet, but probably will:
 
iPod Classic (touch screen). 120gb & upwards.
 
This is kinda the failing of iPod touch at the mo (sure, they go up to 64gb, but bear with me), I think some people are still thinking of the Touch in terms of "communication device", & are slightly dissapointed when they realise WiFi isn't as free as they'd like. They wanted iPhone, really.
 
HOWEVER. The potential of iPod touch is huge, if only they'd give BIG storage (either HD or SSD). IF & when they do that, it could be the end of CDs, when you can go into a WiFi place & download so many albums without worrying about space, using the iTunes on your device, OR, previewing the music in a store that has WiFi.
 
Unfortunately, it's still the holy grail trying to find somewhere with FREE wifi, maybe music stores will give it, some pubs do. People don't generally like having to pay for WiFi on top of buying things online using their WiFi device. We need to coax people out of their homes, there's not enough free WiFi about at the mo (imo)!
 
So, give the touch a big HD, lot's of free places to download, & perhaps better WiFi reception (Touch signal is weaker than my Nokia) & I'm sure lot's of other manufacturers will jump on the bandwagon. Right now it's just no fun using Touch at home especially if you already have a computer for that.
 
So near, yet so far...

 

[dirkpitt45]

Quote:

Anyway, I'm really hoping I don't just get Apple bashing in this thread.  I already said - lets deal with facts only.  Every pmp has something going for it that makes someone decide to pick it instead of the alternative, I picked the ipod (and Clip+), I said why I did with examples of my uses of the device.  Why did you choose your device?  

 
Zune HD 
PROS
1. It's not apple
2. Solidly built, back and border made of brushed metal, no fear of digitizer shattering in a drop
3. it has a nice OLED screen
4. 32gb for $190 shipped+delivered
5. One of the best UI's on any device
6. It's an awesome form factor, fits almost anywhere with no worry about breaking it
7. Audio out is one of the better ones
8. Zune software is pretty decent, sorts songs oddly sometimes but it doesn't freeze your pc like itunes so meh, looks cool though
9. Unique, I'm probably the only person with one in my town
10. It's a sexy beast, matter of opinion though
11. It can stream 720p movies to t.v.s with the dock, though I'd never use that personally.
12. Zune pass, entire M$ library of music, apps, podcasts, t.v. shows, movies for $14.99 a month
 
CONS
1. Pretty much no support in Canada, I have to use a spoofed ip to download "official apps"
2. Scrolling through 4k songs to get ones in the "w or y" category takes a while
3. Can't log into HTML password protected wi-fi, ie, when you connect you get taken to a webpage to log in
4. Not nearly as many apps, ~400 I think
5. Zune software, its a love hate relationship 
6. Hold button doesn't like me sometimes and won't un-hold on the first press
8. Zune pass, $15 a month, and not available in Canada
7. Its not apple (for some)