[SENOR4Q]

Philips 963sa or sony 222es & singlepower MPX3/Audiovalve RKV

or

Hotrodded sony 222es & my present META42

Any advice? Doing either one would cost me about the same which is what has me wondering.

 

[pbirkett]

Well I dont know about those amps, but a good philosiphy to have is crap in, crap out.

Get the best source you can.

 

[markl]

I'd vote for the better source. Upgrade amp later.

 

[tom hankins]

Add another vote for the best source you can get.

 

[Hirsch]

Not all that long ago, I would have voted for the source. However, IMO the Meta is going to be the bottleneck in your system. No matter how good your source gets, you're not going to hear it with the Meta in the amplification stream. I think your most effective upgrade route would be the stock 222ES and MPX-3 or RKV. The good amp will let you get the most out of the stock 222ES...and you can have it hotrodded later, when finances permit. The differences between the digital sources is going to be smaller than the differences between the Meta and either of the amps you're considering.

I had the opportunity to listen to some sources and amps at a dealer recently. A Roksan CDP driving a Cary CAD 300SEI really worked some magic with my R10. However, shifting to an Audio Aero Capitole MKII, driving a Cary modded to use 2A3's instead of 300B's, the magic disappeared. The Capitole should have been a major sonic upgrade from the Roksan, but is was completely negated by the amp (and the modded Cary is not a bad amp!).

A great source through a Meta will be a very unbalanced system. You're just as well of with a stock 222ES through that amp. You'll need the improvement in amplification before hotrodding a 222ES will make much of a difference.

If you had asked me this six months ago, I might have answered differently.

 

[bozebuttons]

I would have to agree with Hirsches assement in this situation.
I am a firm believer in source first but with the choices given your bigger bang for the buck would be the better amp plus either the phillips or the 222es.

 

[radrd]

I'd go with the 222ES/963SA and a better amp. You can have either source modded latter, and as Hirsh said, you will at least hear what your source is capable of.

The 222ES seems to be a better mod candidate, so I would go with that one.

 

[Sean H]

Quote:

The differences between the digital sources is going to be smaller than the differences between the Meta and either of the amps you're considering.[/B]

Bingo! I would agree with all Hirsch has outlined here. Good advice indeed.

 

[Nightfall]

Originally posted by Hirsch
I had the opportunity to listen to some sources and amps at a dealer recently. A Roksan CDP driving a Cary CAD 300SEI really worked some magic with my R10. However, shifting to an Audio Aero Capitole MKII, driving a Cary modded to use 2A3's instead of 300B's, the magic disappeared. The Capitole should have been a major sonic upgrade from the Roksan, but is was completely negated by the amp (and the modded Cary is not a bad amp!).

Okay, I ahve to ask, Hirsch, out of my immense respect for your opinions on such matters. HOW good was the Capitole when it drove the Cary 300SEI? I've read the rave reviews of this source, and I know that Tom Hankins loves his. Is it worth the mega dollars?


JC

 

[tom hankins]

Nightfall, Listening to the Audio Aero with the SDS amp or using it with my Krell system, To me it's the most enjoyable digital source I've ever heard. Wether it affects anyone else that way I can't say. I started saving for mine the same day I heard one. I would have paid even more to get the pleasure it gives me.
I can see why people freak out at the price. Some people will think nothing is worth that kind of money, more power to them. To me it's worth it. BTW I was lucky enough to get a demo at a decent price.
That said, through headphones you do loose some of two of this players strengths. Alot of the dynamics, and all of the most fantastic soundstage going. Knowing this, I think Hirsch's answer about source/amp combo's for headphone listening is true. The Rega Jupiter, and modified CD25 (although both lacking) are much closer to the Audio Aero through headphones than through speakers.

 

[sacd lover]

I think you should get a modded 222es and the cheaper tube amp. The cost difference between the singlepower amp and the RKV would almost pay for the 222es mod. You would then have a superior source and amp. The modded 222es is a big step up over the standard 222es; in fact its an improvement over a lot of more costly cd players IMO.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nightfall Okay, I ahve to ask, Hirsch, out of my immense respect for your opinions on such matters. HOW good was the Capitole when it drove the Cary 300SEI? I've read the rave reviews of this source, and I know that Tom Hankins loves his. Is it worth the mega dollars?

The short answer is that I don't know.

In the dealer environment, I think other factors may not have let me really hear this player. The dealer mentioned that the power cord he normally uses with the Capitole was out on loan. I'm not commenting on power cords here, just reporting the facts. The Cary I heard the Capitole with was not the 300SEI per se, as it did not have 300B tubes, but was a custom version (customized by Cary) that used a 2A3 tube. I heard the Roksan player through a stock 300SEI. So, there were too many variables to figure out what I was really hearing. I think that if I got the Capitole in my home system, I'd take out a second mortgage before letting it go...but that's pure speculation based on my belief that what I was hearing was based on the differences between the Cary amps, not the sources. It sounded to me like the Capitole was being hidden from me by the amp.

 

[SENOR4Q]

sacdlover:

I meant a used RKV, sorry. What I mean is basicaly any amp around $600 or so new or used.

 

[grinch]

to seriously upgrade your system, i'd suggest selling the k501's and buying some grado rs-1's and vwap pads. that'd be the best upgrade for you i can possibly thing of.

then go for a decent source like a cary 303/200, arcam fmj23, or rega planet.


[size=xx-small][edit]: typo[/size]

 

[SENOR4Q]

whoa dude, slow down. I can't afford that kind of gear

. I really like my k501 (better than the hd600) and since I'm sensitive to brightness somewhat, I refuse to take a risk on grados. I think I will do the source---cables--amp thing in the end as I like my amp very much. It's not like any META42 I've read about, specs wise (30v internal PCU, HEXFREDS etc.). It runs dead silent even at max volume running off a soundcard, which really suprised me. Anyway, I digress. My eye is on an MPX3 or used RKV or used MOH(R) so for now, a good used CDP would be cheaper for I think.