[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is this "plain old 60/40"? Will silver be problematic?

Just regular 60/40 you can find pretty much anywhere. I prefer Kester because I can get big spools of it at the local shop.

Silver can be a total pain in the rectum. I've been soldering stuff regularly since '98 or so, and I've tried a few different solders.

As attractive as it might be to go for the silver, specialty, etc. etc. types of solder, the only thing that really matters is a solid physical connection.

With silver and other types of "specialty" solder, I've had cold joints, lousy flows and problems. If you make 300 joints on a PCB and three or four of them are marginal because the solder didn't flow leading to a few joints that aren't working, you aren't going to hear the alleged benefit. Tracking down what went wrong can soak up hours and hours of time. I wouldn't use it on cables, either, because cables get moved a lot.

If something moves and flexes, it is critical that you have the best possible physical connection. I would not want to have to cut a cable open every few months to re-solder it.

Further, like all the cable and power cord controversy, and much of that sort of thing, there's no demonstrated benefit to all these specialty solders. Yeah, it sounds like you're doing something special by having metals other than lead and tin, but you really aren't. Soldering is more like a bolt that holds something together. Insisting on using a silver bolt for might not be such a good idea when what you really need is a steel bolt that is considerably stronger. Nothing flows and works better than 60/40. If you want physical reliability, that's what you use.

 

[FraGGleR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif No flaw, I did mean the attitude completely. I do not with to argue from a position of authority or experience, but I am getting particularly annoyed at the 'other' sub-forums MOAR SOLDERZ attitude prevailing in what is usually the common sense of the DIY forum.

But why would you be a dick to someone who didn't even post what you are talking about? I definitely understand the attitudes you are talking about, but the DIY forum is not strictly for nihilists who use nothing but the oldest, most basic stuff. "paperclips work for me, so anyone who doesn't use just paperclips should die!" That is just as stupid and unhelpful as the "MOAR SOLDERZ" attitude that you flipped out over. There are a lot of people, myself included, who tend to walk a more middle of the road.

I am still trying to wade through the reality and the hype around here so I have to experiment for myself. Not only do I have to be careful of blindly following the advice of the snake oil salesman, but I must, if I am to be fair to myself, be wary of folks like you, especially if you simply tell people to fcuk off instead of providing any type of useful information or advice.

I randomly got the cardas due to hype, as I was a complete beginner. What I have experienced is that it works really nicely for my purposes thus far (making cables). I want to expand to amps and dacs now and was planning on continuing to use the cardas because I don't feel like buying anything new. However, I like to use the best tools that I can, so if someone has specifically had difficulties with the cardas over some kester, then I would love to hear about it. If the cardas will specifically hurt my projects, please let me know.

 

[drummerdimitri]

Thanks for the advice guys, I guess I'll have to stick with my radio shack 60/40 solder...

 

[Thermionic Dude]

Nothing really wrong with most of the solders RS sells. Their 62/36/2 solders are excellent and appear to be of comparable quality to Kester or Aim; the thin-diameter versions are particularly good for SMD work. Their 60/40 and 63/37 solders don't flow as nicely as comparable Kester or Aim however, and tend to leave behind more residue, but do get the job done.

My recommendation is to use Kester #44 or #285 63/37. These solders have been in production for decades and are very easy to work with. The #44 contains activated rosin flux, and has very rapid wetting and great flow, but leaves behind rosin residue which must be cleaned (flush board/connections with 91% isopropyl or use a flux remover spray-no big deal). The #285 formulation contains mildly-activated flux which does not require cleaning (tradeoff is slightly longer wetting/flow times). I myself use #44 exclusively. Either formulation costs around $20-25/pound spool, MUCH cheaper than RS and better solder to boot!

For DIY, just stay away from lead-free formulations. It is much harder to use (especially for a beginner) and is NOT safer (the main hazard from hand-soldering is exposure to flux vapors, not Pb poisoning). Contrary to popular belief, lead-bearing solder IS NOT being banned anywhere! ROHS is intended to cut down on the quantity of lead-bearing waste in landfills, and requires lead-free only for NEW equipment (with lots of exemptions, such as in vehicles). There is no ban on the sale of the solder itself, and its use remains completely legal for hobbyist, prototyping, and repair purposes (among other applications). Not to mention it's much more expensive.

Finally, I'll try to shed some light on the ratios of metals in solders. Standard 60/40 is still most commonly used due to cheapness and durability of soldered connections. The only drawback is that this alloy has a MELTING RANGE rather than a specific melting point; in practice this means that when soldering a connection, there is a brief period where the solder is "slushy" (about a second) prior to completely melting. The 63/37 formulation is eutectic, which simply means that it has a melting point rather than range, and in practice is a bit easier to work with. The 62/36/2 formulations are not strictly speaking eutectic, but melting range is only a couple of degrees and is comparable to 63/37 in terms of ease of soldering (but does require slightly higher soldering temps).

 

[jageur272]

Supposedly, the solid range temperature for 60/40 is up to 183C and liquid range is 190C. This means that there is a "slush" range of about 7 degrees Celsius. 63/37 has the same solid range, but a liquid range of 184C. Thus, it's a little bit easier to use. Personally, I prefer 63/37 over any of the other primary solders (easier to use than both 60/40 and 62/36/2), but that's just my opinion. The silver bearing solder has a higher melting point which means that it takes that much longer for it to flow.

 

[FraGGleR]

So in general, a eutectic solder, regardless of how much one pays for it, would probably be easier to work with since it has less of a slush phase? That is what I was referring to before. Even with helping hands, I sometimes move things so the instant hardening is quite useful for me.


Sorry your thread kind of got taken over dmitri.

 

[pila405]

Find TIN LEAD SOLDER WIRE REEL 63/37 2% FLUX CORE 0.7mm 500g on eBay International Market, with worldwide deals on items in all your top categories

Will this do the work?

 

[pila405]

Beefy - I send you PM, will you be able to answer it please?

 

[unl3a5h3d]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LingLing1337 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, didn't know that you could score 50ft for 7 bucks. I will never buy RadioShat again.

I just bought 20ft for $5 shipped. I am just waiting for it to get here, I have all of the other parts

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Beefy - I send you PM, will you be able to answer it please?

No, I won't. You clearly didn't search for the answer yourself, and I very much dislike your overly demanding and lazy demeanour.

 

[johnwmclean]

I've tried your boag standard 60/40, Kester and Cardas.
Cardas is my favourite it flows better and hardens faster from a slurry state, Kester runs a close second.

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwmclean /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've tried your boag standard 60/40, Kester and Cardas.

Which Kester? They make a lot of different types

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which Kester? They make a lot of different types

Good point. The one sitting at home on my work bench

FWIW I’ve also found Cardas is by far the cleanest solder with hardly any flux splatter.

 

[Thermionic Dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraGGleR /img/forum/go_quote.gif So in general, a eutectic solder, regardless of how much one pays for it, would probably be easier to work with since it has less of a slush phase?

Strictly speaking, yes, eutectic solder will melt and solidify a little quicker than 60/40.

In practice however, I've not found it to be a big issue. Flux composition and adequate preparation of the metals to be soldered are much more important in determining how easily a joint can be completed.

Parts being soldered should be free of oily/greasy residues or visible contamination. (I use fine grit sandpaper and/or isopropyl alcohol on the rare occasion that cleaning is necessary.)

Flux chemistry is also important. There are several varieties, but the best for hobbyist purposes consist of rosin activated (RA) or rosin mildly-activated (RMA). The flux removes oxidation from the metals by chemically reducing them (using heat). RA formulations do this more aggressively than RMA, and result in the solder penetrating and wetting the joint more quickly. The trade-off is that RA leaves more residue behind, which must be cleaned (not difficult-flush with 91% isopropyl or flux remover and blot dry).

 

[FraGGleR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thermionic Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Strictly speaking, yes, eutectic solder will melt and solidify a little quicker than 60/40. In practice however, I've not found it to be a big issue. Flux composition and adequate preparation of the metals to be soldered are much more important in determining how easily a joint can be completed. Parts being soldered should be free of oily/greasy residues or visible contamination. (I use fine grit sandpaper and/or isopropyl alcohol on the rare occasion that cleaning is necessary.) Flux chemistry is also important. There are several varieties, but the best for hobbyist purposes consist of rosin activated (RA) or rosin mildly-activated (RMA). The flux removes oxidation from the metals by chemically reducing them (using heat). RA formulations do this more aggressively than RMA, and result in the solder penetrating and wetting the joint more quickly. The trade-off is that RA leaves more residue behind, which must be cleaned (not difficult-flush with 91% isopropyl or flux remover and blot dry).

Thanks for the break down. I might try to get ahold of some 63/37 Kester to try if I can find it in smaller quantities than a whole spool.

And thanks to Johnwmclean for chiming in with his experiences with the Cardas compared to Kester. Much appreciated.