[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm using the Equalizer in Foobar now, I don't hear a difference other than different volumes. Even when I lower the volume of a frequency it doesn't get muddy, it's still clear. I tried many combinations now, it still sounds the same to me.

I'm not familiar with Foobar, but my guess is that the pots aren't fine enough to isolate... or perhaps you aren't used to the controls and aren't able to get a flat balance. Your best bet is to use a recording of acoustic instruments (chamber music seems to work the best) and try to achieve the most realistic balance.

There is a sweet spot in EQing, that you get so you can identify with experience, where the sound suddenly becomes clearer. An imbalance as small as 3dB in certain frequencies can cause frequency masking in the upper harmonics. A friend of mine showed me an example of this that was very vivid. He made a 3dB boost around 4kHz. Suddenly the overtones on the treble became thick and muffled. Do a Google search on "frequency masking" if you'd like to read more about this.

An example of inbalances causing lack of definition in bass would be those cannon shaped bass units people put in their cars. You can feel the thump! thump! thump! in your chest, but the emphasis on the lowest bass frequencies causes basses to lose all of their "pluck" and become fuzzy sounding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have tried more and emphasizing a frequency doesn't improve detail

It's not about emphasizing frequencies. It's achieving a balance of frequencies where all of them sound equal in volume. That is a lot harder to achieve than it sounds.

See ya
Steve

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif A major stereo publication did a test of several cables and confirmed this. Monster Cables were found to be less responsive than a plain vanilla Radio Shack. The theory was that the cable was being hobbled deliberately to make it sound different from others. See ya Steve

I don't have monster cable....

 

[imported_Matt_Carter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't have monster cable....

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't have monster cable....

The rest of the cables in the test were for all intents and purposes identical.

See ya
Steve

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not about emphasizing frequencies. It's achieving a balance of frequencies where all of them sound equal in volume. That is a lot harder to achieve than it sounds.

All of them already sound equal in my system. You know, most audiophiles tweak their system to get synergy...

How to get perfect synergy is from fixing the problems in the system. Vibration isolation, power conditioning, ERS Paper, cables etc. There's no need for EQ controls or gear matching. All gear sound similar when the problems are solved.

You can get lucky synergy from muddy gear + vibration manipulation too, I had that before but the detail was much worse than it is now.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif All of them already sound equal in my system. You know, most audiophiles tweak their system to get synergy.

That isn't at all the same thing as achieving a flat frequency response. Choosing colored components that just happen to cancel out the coloration of other components would be an endless and frustrating process. That's why most equipment is calibrated to have a flat response. Speakers and room acoustics (and to a little less degree, headphones) can't be manufactured to those sorts of tolerances though. That's why you have to equalize to maintain the proper response curve.

If you're interested in the subject of proper equalization and what it can do for your system, feel free to re-read my past couple of posts and do some googling.

See ya
Steve

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif The rest of the cables in the test were for all intents and purposes identical. See ya Steve

Unless you really measure every cable on the market, you cannot presume some other cable set the standard for all of em....

And the plug is also a mayor factor in the end product...a good measuring cable can be trashed by using a nickle plug....gone is your advantage....and since cheap cables use cheap plugs(mostly nickle) i doubt they measure as good as a cable with top end materials...

I know from my own experiments that it is possible to alter the sound of a cable by using shielding, the thickness of the shielding and the space between the cores is a mayor factor...Also teflon leaks less...so is a much better insulator for audio purposes then most other materials...there are figures that show this...teflon is by far the best insulator. hence expensive cables almost without any exception use teflon in their products.

So, i say i agree half with ya...

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif That isn't at all the same thing as achieving a flat frequency response. Choosing colored components that just happen to cancel out the coloration of other components would be an endless and frustrating process. That's why most equipment is calibrated to have a flat response. Speakers and room acoustics (and to a little less degree, headphones) can't be manufactured to those sorts of tolerances though. That's why you have to equalize to maintain the proper response curve. If you're interested in the subject of proper equalization and what it can do for your system, feel free to re-read my past couple of posts and do some googling. See ya Steve

I understand you can solve some accoustic problems especially with speakers...but you alter the original produced wave...so in a manner distorting the signal yourself...i am not sure if i would call that enhancement...
ok, you solved your accoustic problem but you still altered the original sound...

 

[KrooLism]

Well - after reading this extensive argument over the thread I started, I decided to do the blind test for myself.

I have:
1. Tandy's $12 RCA cable.
2. Monster cable I borrowed
3. Acoustic Research Master Series I picked up for $80.

I connected the single ended outs from the Grace Design M902 into my Marantz intergrated amp.
I couldn't really tell the difference between the first two, but the AR Master series cable with its magnetic shielding did give a little more clarity to the listening experience. Music just sounded sharper.

After the listening experience, I am convinced that the quality of the signal transmission (not cable) is probably the most important factor. Given this decision, I have financially added up what I would spend.
(for those who forgot, this is the thread topic)

K-1000 ($1000) + Grace ($1600) + Aleph ($2500 MSRP new) = $5100.

And most people here seem to suggest between 15-20% (no offence to your Valhallas Patrick, I'm sure they're sweet). So $400 is already going towards the Equinox hardwire so I figured I have abour another $400 for a decent pair of interconnects.

Although only being 10% of the price of the Valhalla, I hope to find a cable that can do 99% of the job. Any suggestions patrick?

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrooLism /img/forum/go_quote.gif And most people here seem to suggest between 15-20% (no offence to your Valhallas Patrick, I'm sure they're sweet). So $400 is already going towards the Equinox hardwire so I figured I have abour another $400 for a decent pair of interconnects. Although only being 10% of the price of the Valhalla, I hope to find a cable that can do 99% of the job. Any suggestions patrick?

What is the minimum length you need?

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrooLism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well - after reading this extensive argument over the thread I started, I decided to do the blind test for myself. I have: 1. Tandy's $12 RCA cable. 2. Monster cable I borrowed 3. Acoustic Research Master Series I picked up for $80. I connected the single ended outs from the Grace Design M902 into my Marantz intergrated amp. I couldn't really tell the difference between the first two, but the AR Master series cable with its magnetic shielding did give a little more clarity to the listening experience. Music just sounded sharper. After the listening experience, I am convinced that the quality of the signal transmission (not cable) is probably the most important factor. Given this decision, I have financially added up what I would spend. (for those who forgot, this is the thread topic) K-1000 ($1000) + Grace ($1600) + Aleph ($2500 MSRP new) = $5100. And most people here seem to suggest between 15-20% (no offence to your Valhallas Patrick, I'm sure they're sweet). So $400 is already going towards the Equinox hardwire so I figured I have abour another $400 for a decent pair of interconnects. Although only being 10% of the price of the Valhalla, I hope to find a cable that can do 99% of the job. Any suggestions patrick?

Excellent! You listened for yourself and decided what works for you (and what doesn't work for you). This is the best way to go about it, as opposed to deciding what you should do based on what others (some of whom have never done their own listening) tell you MUST be the case. Kudos for making up your own mind and deciding what is best in your case. That's what everybody with an open mind does.

 

[KrooLism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is the minimum length you need?

One metre to be anything near practical.

The Aleph 3 requires one foot of space clearance on all sides.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unless you really measure every cable on the market, you cannot presume some other cable set the standard for all of em.

Can I presume that chickens lay round eggs without examining every henhouse on the planet?

See ya
Steve

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand you can solve some accoustic problems especially with speakers...but you alter the original produced wave...so in a manner distorting the signal yourself...i am not sure if i would call that enhancement.

You're not distorting the signal... you're returning it to the proper balance. The headphone/speaker/room acoustics are the elements producing the distortion, not the equalization.

Headphones, speakers and room acoustics are the three elements that cause 90% of sound quality problems in home audio systems- ALL systems, no matter how much they cost. Buying high end cables and not dealing with the response of your system is like giving a haircut to someone who's having a heart attack. It's nice, but it ain't gonna help the situation any.

See ya
Steve

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrooLism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well - after reading this extensive argument over the thread I started, I decided to do the blind test for myself. I have: 1. Tandy's $12 RCA cable. 2. Monster cable I borrowed 3. Acoustic Research Master Series I picked up for $80. I connected the single ended outs from the Grace Design M902 into my Marantz intergrated amp. I couldn't really tell the difference between the first two, but the AR Master series cable with its magnetic shielding did give a little more clarity to the listening experience. Music just sounded sharper. After the listening experience, I am convinced that the quality of the signal transmission (not cable) is probably the most important factor. Given this decision, I have financially added up what I would spend. (for those who forgot, this is the thread topic) K-1000 ($1000) + Grace ($1600) + Aleph ($2500 MSRP new) = $5100. And most people here seem to suggest between 15-20% (no offence to your Valhallas Patrick, I'm sure they're sweet). So $400 is already going towards the Equinox hardwire so I figured I have abour another $400 for a decent pair of interconnects. Although only being 10% of the price of the Valhalla, I hope to find a cable that can do 99% of the job. Any suggestions patrick?

Try the PS audio top end cable..it's about 400 dollars and comes close to the really top end cables with increadable musicality...