[bigshot]

Let me know when we start talking about sound reproduction again.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

I have in my bedroom a(unbeknownst to me 100W per ch!!) Pioneer receiver with 7 band graphic EQ that I use for a headphone amp. It's an early one, pseudo-surround, even before Pro Logic. I know, I know - It's like using a 5 megaton-tipped 1960s Titan to dynamite a boulder under the street(!), but what I do is plug my device into that, headphone into the receiver, set the receiver volume to 12 o'clock, and adjust my listening volume on the iPod or other device itself. (Of course I remember to fully CCW the Pioneer volume before disconnecting everything) That receiver is not part of any system: stereo, home theatre or otherwise. Just HP amp overkill !

Seven bands is sufficient to iron out any obvious exaggeration depending upon which headphone I've attached, otherwise I leave the EQ flat. (EQ is of course off/flat on any device I'm using) Some times I add some 80Hz with the Pio with it if I'm listening at a low volume, IE nodding off.

My middle-aged ears can't really tell the difference between plugged into that receiver or plugged directly into, IE, my iPod Touch, but I'm guessing, as I am running things above, that the Pioneer will not run out of steam as readily as the iPod would when driving higher impedance cans, especially in the bottom region, below 100Hz.

 

[SergeSE]

Audio quality of Apple Lightning to 3.5mm adapter (A1749) is almost as good as in-built mobile audio solutions by Apple, though it has slightly worse df-measurements. Mostly due to the higher jitter. But if you listen music you will not hear the difference; it is too subtle to be perceived. Df-slide with standard SE measurements:

 

[elfary]

Audio quality of Apple Lightning to 3.5mm adapter (A1749) is almost as good as in-built mobile audio solutions by Apple, though it has slightly worse df-measurements. Mostly due to the higher jitter. But if you listen music you will not hear the difference; it is too subtle to be perceived. Df-slide with standard SE measurements:

Who has devised and certified this objective appraisal?

Audio source performance used to be very well explained by: Output impedance, noise floor, IMD, THD and crosstalk while driving a load.

Specifically, what does this weird procedure tells about the output impedance of the source which is the most critical parameter for balanced armature earphones? High Zout, no linear signal, skewed tonal balance.

This method leaves me perplexed enough to be curious about its foundation.

For what it's worth the Lightning to 3.5 dongle has no noise, almost 0 Zout, and very low THD, IMD and crosstalk. Actually it's better than Apple built in jacks b/c it's better at the most critical parameters: Zout, noise floor and clipping performance.

2009 iPod Classic has 5 ohms of Zout which makes it worse than the dongle by a long shot.Specially with low impedance/balanced armature earphones.

It seems to me that this appraisal is flawed by neglecting Zout.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Who has devised and certified this objective appraisal?

Audio source appraisals used to be very well explained by: Output impedance, noise floor, IMD, THD and crosstalk while driving a load.

Specifically, what does this weird procedure tells about the output impedance of the source which is the most critical parameter for balanced armature earphones? High Zout, no linear signal, skewed tonal balance.

This method leaves me perplexed enough to be curious about its foundation.

For what it's worth the Lightning to 3.5 dongle has no noise, almost 0 Zout, and very low THD, IMD and crosstalk. Actually it's better than Apple built in jacks b/c it's better at the most critical parameters: Zout, noise floor and clipping performance.

Using the Noble Encore IEMs I could not differentiate between the Apple Lighting Dongle and the IPod Touch 6th Generation output. The tone, power and personality were subjectively exactly the same. In a way it’s amazing they were able to replicate the quality to a T.

 

[elfary]

Using the Noble Encore IEMs I could not differentiate between the Apple Lighting Dongle and the IPod Touch 6th Generation output. The tone, power and personality were subjectively exactly the same. In a way it’s amazing they were able to replicate the quality to a T.

Have no tried Tocuh 6G but dongle is pinch better than any 'jacked' iPhone i have tried (all) for driving low impedance/balanced armature iems.

What i can assure you is that you would prefer your Touch to an iPod Classic 2009 (its 5 ohms of Zout are really discernible).

 

[Redcarmoose]

Have no tried Tocuh 6G but dongle is pinch better than any 'jacked' iPhone i have tried (all) for driving low impedance/balanced armature iems.

What i can assure you is that you would prefer your Touch to an iPod Classic 2009 (its 5 ohms of Zout are really discernible).

I have had most of the IPods. The Classic I had was called the IPod Video or something probably around 2006? I had the 1/2 gigabyte Shuffle, the Mini, the first Touch, a 5th generation Touch and two 6th generation Touch players.

But the Shuffle sounded the best. Though I still think the 5th Generation sounds slightly warmer than the 6th Generations? But yes, the Classic is maybe not the best sounding? Funny too as they became really expensive once they were discontinued.

But the IPod Touch is a great interface. I use IPods all day long out of the house.

 

[elfary]

I have had most of the IPods. The Classic I had was called the IPod Video or something probably around 2006? I had the 1/2 gigabyte Shuffle, the Mini, the first Touch, a 5th generation Touch and two 6th generation Touch players.

But the Shuffle sounded the best. Though I still think the 5th Generation sounds slightly warmer than the 6th Generations? But yes, the Classic is maybe not the best sounding? Funny too as they became really expensive once they were discontinued.

But the IPod Touch is a great interface. I use IPods all day long out of the house.

I loved the 2009 iPod Classic in spite of its Achilles heel (5ohms of Zout),

Actually i started a thread commending it back in 2009 when bashing iPods sound quality was the norm to abide to in order to appear cool

The click wheel was an amazing piece of UI. And size was great. And the huge aftermarket...aww miss those days when Apple was just about music.

 

[SergeSE]

It seems to me that this appraisal is flawed by neglecting Zout.

I would say it is not complete as only 32 Ohm load was used. But within this restriction the "appraisal" just confirms conclusions of other researchers. While using different approach to audio measurements

 

[bigshot]

Audio quality of Apple Lightning to 3.5mm adapter (A1749) is almost as good as in-built mobile audio solutions by Apple, though it has slightly worse df-measurements. Mostly due to the higher jitter.

That looks very similar to the Airports. I have several of those and they are all fine. Those jitter ratings are well beneath the threshold of audibility with normal use.

 

[elfary]

I would say it is not complete as only 32 Ohm load was used. But within this restriction the "appraisal" just confirms conclusions of other researchers. While using different approach to audio measurements

Output impedance is the impedance of the amplifier. The lower the better.

 

[SergeSE]

Output impedance is the impedance of the amplifier. The lower the better.

And in order to measure it you need to use at least one more load (or no-load). I agree, it's important parameter. When I have accurate enough V-meter the parameter will be added to df-slide.

 

[krismusic]

I still say that my experience is that iPhones make noise. Mojo DAC makes music. I would love to think that the iPhone is the be all and end all but that is simply not my experience.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

Audio quality of Apple Lightning to 3.5mm adapter (A1749) is almost as good as in-built mobile audio solutions by Apple, though it has slightly worse df-measurements. Mostly due to the higher jitter. But if you listen music you will not hear the difference; it is too subtle to be perceived. Df-slide with standard SE measurements:

So what exactly does that graph mean, that the average noise floor is -26dB full scale?

 

[bigshot]

I still say that my experience is that iPhones make noise. Mojo DAC makes music.

That's odd because I played a Beethoven symphony on my iPhone last night and it sure sounded like music to me. I think you might be a teenie weenie bit mistaken there.

So what exactly does that graph mean, that the average noise floor is -26dB full scale?

This is distortion (or differences in the signal), not noise. Looks to me like it says that it reproduces music audibly perfect. It doesn't do quite as well with waveforms that don't exist in real life, like square waves and triangle waves. That's to be expected. Those are considered illegal signals in digital audio. They put them on the chart so it looks like something. Otherwise it would be a perfect straight line.