[krismusic]

Logic would suggest that the DAC in the Apple dongle is very basic and cheap. Is an external dedicated DAC demonstrably better or is the DAC in the dongle all that is necessary?

 

[SparkOnShore]

Logic would suggest that the DAC in the Apple dongle is very basic and cheap. Is an external dedicated DAC demonstrably better or is the DAC in the dongle all that is necessary?

There is another thread dedicated to Apple dongle's audio quality, where actual measuring proves dongle to be rather capable, "good enough" so to say. I can't find the link though but I guess you can track it down easily yourself.

Even though, I do not have personal experience since I've stopped using wired for a while now. I think Bluetooth audio is anymore good enough for me, as well as So convenient!!

 

[krismusic]

There is another thread dedicated to Apple dongle's audio quality, where actual measuring proves dongle to be rather capable, "good enough" so to say. I can't find the link though but I guess you can track it down easily yourself.

Even though, I do not have personal experience since I've stopped using wired for a while now. I think Bluetooth audio is anymore good enough for me, as well as So convenient!!

I found Keen Rockwell's measurements. According to him external Dac's are a waste of time. I'd better retire my Chord Mojo then!

 

[bigshot]

I have 9 iPods and have owned 3 iPhones, not to mention numerous Mac computers going back to the first one capable of CD quality sound, the 8500AV. Every one of them is audibly perfect to human ears. I've checked them against professional equipment and a high end DAC and they sound identical. If the Mac products meet your needs feature-wise, there is no reason for an outboard DAC. Unless the line out requires one. I haven't tried the dongle DAC yet, but based on my previous experience with dozens of Apple products, I would bet it is audibly perfect too. You can't judge fidelity by size or price any more. I think the reports of Apple products not sounding good are due to impedance mismatches from using the headphone out with headphones that weren't intended to be used that way. Through line out with proper amping, Apple products sound perfect.

 

[krismusic]

I have 9 iPods and have owned 3 iPhones, not to mention numerous Mac computers going back to the first one capable of CD quality sound, the 8500AV. Every one of them is audibly perfect to human ears. I've checked them against professional equipment and a high end DAC and they sound identical. If the Mac products meet your needs feature-wise, there is no reason for an outboard DAC. Unless the line out requires one. I haven't tried the dongle DAC yet, but based on my previous experience with dozens of Apple products, I would bet it is audibly perfect too. You can't judge fidelity by size or price any more. I think the reports of Apple products not sounding good are due to impedance mismatches from using the headphone out with headphones that weren't intended to be used that way. Through line out with proper amping, Apple products sound perfect.

I know this is your take on the matter Bigshot. You have saved me from going down many a rabbit hole. However, for the longest time I heeded what you say about idevices. I could never settle and enjoy my music. I bought the Mojo. I have used it almost every day for two years now. With it, I do enjoy my music. It seems to convey emotion rather than just sound. Maybe placebo but works for me.

 

[bigshot]

Find out for sure if it's placebo. Test your Mojo. We have a group of people who will help you if you're interested.

By the way, electronics doesn't convey emotion. It conveys signals. MUSICIANS are the ones who convey emotion. You may just be listening to better music, which is the most economical way of all to improve your listening experience.

Better music doesn't cost more than lousy music. Why should equipment be any different?

 

[krismusic]

Find out for sure if it's placebo. Test your Mojo. We have a group of people who will help you if you're interested.

By the way, electronics doesn't convey emotion. It conveys signals. MUSICIANS are the ones who convey emotion. You may just be listening to better music, which is the most economical way of all to improve your listening experience.

Better music doesn't cost more than lousy music. Why should equipment be any different?

I have always liked your take on audio matters. Audiophoole and otherwise. I enjoyed the rigour of disbelieving improvements via electronics were possible. From you I have learned that placebo and expectation bias are incredibly powerful. However years of listening with and without Mojo point to otherwise. I would be very interested and happy to carry out any tests you like. One caveat. One of the major components of any test may be unreliable. My ears!

 

[sonitus mirus]

I have always liked your take on audio matters. Audiophoole and otherwise. I enjoyed the rigour of disbelieving improvements via electronics were possible. From you I have learned that placebo and expectation bias are incredibly powerful. However years of listening with and without Mojo point to otherwise. I would be very interested and happy to carry out any tests you like. One caveat. One of the major components of any test may be unreliable. My ears!

The Chord Mojo is an outstanding DAC and headphone amp. You seem to get it when it comes to specifications and audible differences, no need to try and confirm anything unless you are simply curious. It doesn't always have to be about finding the most economical solution. There is something about having a device that is highly lauded as being spectacular and that was specifically designed to do one task particularly well. It probably doesn't perform better than a modern smartphone in most situations that matter with regards to audio playback, but nobody can account for the intangibles that personally appeal to you.

 

[krismusic]

The Chord Mojo is an outstanding DAC and headphone amp. You seem to get it when it comes to specifications and audible differences, no need to try and confirm anything unless you are simply curious. It doesn't always have to be about finding the most economical solution. There is something about having a device that is highly lauded as being spectacular and that was specifically designed to do one task particularly well. It probably doesn't perform better than a modern smartphone in most situations that matter with regards to audio playback, but nobody can account for the intangibles that personally appeal to you.

Wise words and exactly how I feel about it. Happy Christmas!

 

[bigshot]

I totally understand loving a machine for no reason except for the fact that it works. Back in 1995, I got the first Mac with video and audio inputs. I promptly racked it up in the recording studio in the studio I was working at and started testing it, running CDs in through the RCA jacks and capturing them and then comparing the capture to the original CD. The results blew me away... I couldn't tell any difference at all. I did the same capturing laserdiscs through the S Video port and was just as impressed. I remember how liberating that felt. Finally, I could copy things and play them back perfectly. I did a million analogue rips on that machine and I still have them. That was the computer that first showed me the direction the future of my audio system was heading. Now I buy CDs and DVDs and promptly rip them to AAC and MKV files. I know someday I'll do that with my blu-rays too. I still look back on that computer with fondness. I still have it and it still runs. It has some long gone declickers and noise reduction software that I really love. I still have it here on a desk, even though I haven't fired it up in over ten years. I know someday I will and go back and rip some more records for old time's sake.

...but I REALLY want that new iMac Pro!

 

[krismusic]

I totally understand loving a machine for no reason except for the fact that it works. Back in 1995, I got the first Mac with video and audio inputs. I promptly racked it up in the recording studio in the studio I was working at and started testing it, running CDs in through the RCA jacks and capturing them and then comparing the capture to the original CD. The results blew me away... I couldn't tell any difference at all. I did the same capturing laserdiscs through the S Video port and was just as impressed. I remember how liberating that felt. Finally, I could copy things and play them back perfectly. I did a million analogue rips on that machine and I still have them. That was the computer that first showed me the direction the future of my audio system was heading. Now I buy CDs and DVDs and promptly rip them to AAC and MKV files. I know someday I'll do that with my blu-rays too. I still look back on that computer with fondness. I still have it and it still runs. It has some long gone declickers and noise reduction software that I really love. I still have it here on a desk, even though I haven't fired it up in over ten years. I know someday I will and go back and rip some more records for old time's sake.

...but I REALLY want that new iMac Pro!

I would be interested in any definitive test I could run to evaluate Mojo Vs iPhone. Much as I like Mojo, if I didn't need to carry it around that would be a plus. I also like to be aware if I am fooling myself.

 

[gregorio]

Logic would suggest that the DAC in the Apple dongle is very basic and cheap. Is an external dedicated DAC demonstrably better or is the DAC in the dongle all that is necessary?

Yes, the DAC in the Apple dongle is very cheap but then all DAC chips are very cheap. In the quantities that Apple buys them, they probably only cost about $1 but even the most expensive DAC chips are only about $5 and that's not because they intrinsically perform better but because they have added functionality; for example, a number of different, switchable programmable filters instead of just one. Even the $1 chips are audibly perfect/transparent these days (and have been for quite a few years).

Like others have said; If you like your DAC, enjoy it's visual design, it's feel, the pleasure of owning an expensive bit of kit and/or brand name, that's perfectly fine, it's your money, your choice and your pleasure. Actually achieving a higher fidelity audible improvement in performance though, that's a different kettle of fish!

G

 

[krismusic]

Yes, the DAC in the Apple dongle is very cheap but then all DAC chips are very cheap. In the quantities that Apple buys them, they probably only cost about $1 but even the most expensive DAC chips are only about $5 and that's not because they intrinsically perform better but because they have added functionality; for example, a number of different, switchable programmable filters instead of just one. Even the $1 chips are audibly perfect/transparent these days (and have been for quite a few years).

Like others have said; If you like your DAC, enjoy it's visual design, it's feel, the pleasure of owning an expensive bit of kit and/or brand name, that's perfectly fine, it's your money, your choice and your pleasure. Actually achieving a higher fidelity audible improvement in performance though, that's a different kettle of fish!

G

Thanks for the input Gregorio. I make you right. Happy Christmas.

 

[stonesfan129]

I have an iPod Touch 6th Gen 128gb and the sound quality on it is fine. The only reason why I retired it is because I hate managing all my music through iTunes and iTunes would consistently fail to sync songs I had ticked to sync. I use a 1st Gen FiiO X1 or 1st Gen FiiO X3 through MusicBee and never have any problems. I like the "Wolfson" sound on the X3 also. I just think that player is harder to use than the X1 so I mainly only use it at home and take the X1 when I'm out of the house.

 

[Chivbrguy]

I have an iPod Touch 6th Gen 128gb and the sound quality on it is fine. The only reason why I retired it is because I hate managing all my music through iTunes and iTunes would consistently fail to sync songs I had ticked to sync. I use a 1st Gen FiiO X1 or 1st Gen FiiO X3 through MusicBee and never have any problems. I like the "Wolfson" sound on the X3 also. I just think that player is harder to use than the X1 so I mainly only use it at home and take the X1 when I'm out of the house.

I have the exact same ipod touch, but instead of using itunes, I found using Copytrans more simpler and intuitive. And with the ipod touch, I use a combination of FiiO's L9 (LOD) cable and an older version of Apple's lightning to 30 pin dock connector, which has the dac that gives that Wolfson like sound. So don't completely retire your ipod touch. What you have there is a gem of a device.