What is a Buffer, in Layman's terms?
Jan 26, 2008 at 1:07 AM Post #16 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by aamefford /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Does it follow then, since W=I^2R, that we are increasing power here?

aamefford




Yes which is why the accumulation tank is more appropriately analogous to a capacitor than a buffer. An accumulation tank does store energy though An air volume boost adds power like a buffer (feed line is always higher psi than signal line.) With a buffer in audio I have always seen the buffer's power rails to be on par with the output from the gain stage.
 
Jan 26, 2008 at 1:14 AM Post #17 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by aamefford /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Tomb and Majkel,

I'm sort of getting it here - the buffer acts like those buffer tanks in the compressed air line - I get that, though I always thought capacitors worked that way, storing up charge (current) to deliver upon need? Also, the buffer opamp doesn't really store current for later, but provides it via V=IR, with a voltage supplied to it, and a reduction in R from input to output, that results in increased I? And this voltage is supplied by the voltage gain amp? or the voltage rails themselves?

Thank you for all of your help so far, and continuing!

aamefford



Well, you have a point. I guess that part of my analogy was in error.
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To truly draw the analogy to an amplifier buffer, I suppose we need to consider an active device that insures flow from its own power source.

Trouble is, I'm not sure I know the device that regal is talking about. Most active, inline mechanical systems are used to boost pressure, not flow. If there is something that introduces additional volume, it's more than likely simply considered a paralleled source.

There might be something analogous in a primary/secondary pumping systems. However, it will take some considered thought to draw the analogy properly. I always have a problem with the industry standard terms in this case, because "primary" is not really the heart of the system - the "secondary" part of the system is the real guts, so to speak.

Casting that issue aside for the time being, though, what you really have is a de-coupled pumping system. The secondary is typically tuned to a specific head (voltage) to meet the load, and then the flow (current) is varied by means of a variable speed drive. These systems can get really large and sometimes the flow variance is done by staging multiples of pumps on and off.

To complete the analogy though, temperature is introduced as another variable, probably analogous to gain of the signal. After all, we aren't really simply flowing water (electricity) with amplifiers. Instead, we're flowing water that's had something special done to it (an amplified music signal).

So if we have a bunch of chillers in a decoupled, primary piping loop, they are applying gain to the water in terms of amplifying the temperature differential (actually negative gain in this case). The decoupled secondary pumping system then sits at a common head (voltage) determined by matching to the resistance of the load. The flow varies in response to cooling coils with control valves that increase or decrease flow to meet local temperature variances (amplifier volume control?). So the secondary pumps may in fact act as a system buffer, adjusting only flow (current), while the first stage primary system is applying negative gain in temperature to the energy of the water.

EDIT: Stated another way, the chillers in the primary loop apply gain to the "signal" (refrigerated water). However, the flow goes nowhere unless the secondary system is used to distribute the current of the amplified water to the load. END EDIT

Probably it would be easier to think in terms of hot water systems, since the temperature differential is a positive gain, but the principles are the same. The difference is that the gain is so high in hot water systems that very little flow is needed and the systems are typically less complicated. Primary/secondary systems with variable flow are not as common. Steam is similar, but has its own peculiar problems. Maybe heat systems with their high differentials are analogous to a simple CMoy with high enough voltage being able to reasonably power a high impedance headphone.

Probably a lot of holes in those analogies, too, but I gave it a shot.
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Jan 26, 2008 at 1:25 AM Post #18 of 25
Ok, I think I've got a rough idea of how to think about buffers now. Tomb, I'll have to re-read your latest post a couple of times, but it looks reasonable so far! I think part of my trouble is there seems to be a shift of meaning in the word "buffer" from mechanical engineering to amplifiers. A buffer in ME or plant operations usually refers to a place to store excess flow - I get 120,000 lb in 8 hours once a day, but I process 40,000 lb every 8 hours, running 24 hours a day, so I need storage space (buffer space) for the 80,000ish lb I'll process during the swing and graveyard shifts. The buffer tanks in the compressed air line is the other good example. In EE(E) there seems to be an active component of a buffer that produces current amplification, rather than just storage. Thank you all so far, and feel free to add to this post, I check it pretty regularly.

aamefford
 
Jan 26, 2008 at 8:18 AM Post #19 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by aamefford /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ok, I think I've got a rough idea of how to think about buffers now. Tomb, I'll have to re-read your latest post a couple of times, but it looks reasonable so far! I think part of my trouble is there seems to be a shift of meaning in the word "buffer" from mechanical engineering to amplifiers. A buffer in ME or plant operations usually refers to a place to store excess flow - I get 120,000 lb in 8 hours once a day, but I process 40,000 lb every 8 hours, running 24 hours a day, so I need storage space (buffer space) for the 80,000ish lb I'll process during the swing and graveyard shifts. The buffer tanks in the compressed air line is the other good example. In EE(E) there seems to be an active component of a buffer that produces current amplification, rather than just storage. Thank you all so far, and feel free to add to this post, I check it pretty regularly.

aamefford



I can now see where you've got confused, the terminology isn't the best, I guess us EE's are use to it (I'm actually studying mechatronic engineering, so I do quite a few discipline, just that I stick to electrical mostly). Digital buffers work exactly how you've explained above. Though an analog buffer can be thought of as buffering the stage before it from the load being driven, just there is an external power source supplying the buffer.

Keep at it, it'll all make sense soon
 
Jan 26, 2008 at 3:55 PM Post #20 of 25
Yeah, analog buffers don't store anything. Instead of thinking of them as a water tank, think of them as a flow regulating (not pressure regulating) value connected to a water line. They can add more water to the main line, but do not store water, they are just a valve. (Probably not the best analogy, but workable.)
 
Jan 26, 2008 at 4:17 PM Post #21 of 25
IMPEDANCE CONVERTER

It does not have to have a high current output to be consider a "buffer" but rather is an interface to match a certain thing to whatever it is that is connected to the output.

Do a google on "voltage follower" for a boatload of content

Rickmeister
 
Jan 26, 2008 at 4:19 PM Post #22 of 25
Forget about analogies or things will get ever more convoluted leading to enormous thread!
In it's simplest form a buffer can be made from a single transistor and a few resistors & caps. [I use one as 'buffer' from a cdp to drive a pair of iems!]
Do a search for 'voltage follower'.
Its basic use of transistors 101.
Don't bother with air tanks water etc learn about the actual thing you are interested in!
Once you understand the electronics then you can have fun with mechanical analogies too!



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Jan 26, 2008 at 4:21 PM Post #23 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
IMPEDANCE CONVERTER

It does not have to have a high current output to be consider a "buffer" but rather is an interface to match a certain thing to whatever it is that is connected to the output.

Do a google on "voltage follower" for a boatload of content

Rickmeister




Hah, you beat me too it.
Hope things are good with you!
 
Jan 26, 2008 at 4:36 PM Post #25 of 25
Quote:

Hah, you beat me too it.


Wasn't easy either.Realising through my superior deductive powers you were about to make my point i pounded that out so fast and with such authority my friggin' fingers are bloody stumps
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If i had the time what I WOULD HAVE typed was


"Unity Gain Active Impedance Converter"
which is a bit more accurate since we also have the wild card of an audio output matching transformer in the "impedance converter" stable but with the difference being :

A-it is a "passive device"
B-will have signal attenuation to the degree of the impedance step down so if the trafos is say a 10:1 impedance converter it will have a -20dB signal attenuation also which in some cases is a damn blessing
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Quote:

Hope things are good with you!


Is what it is man.never been much of a whimper baby so even IF the walls were caving in no one would know until it made headlines
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Rickmeister Ex-supremus Rex out......
 

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