[DemonicLemming]

So I stumbled on this site while doing a quick google search on headphones, and not knowing better, clicked the link.

Gone are my dreams of "good" $70 headphones and plugging straight into the headphone jack of my video card. So long wallet, you now have another hobby alongside books, cars, and computers, and it doesn't look like it'll be a cheap one either. Alas Mr. Grant and Mr. Franklin, you will never find a comfortable resting place in my wallet.

Anyway, on to the questions. I'm a metalhead. I listen to everything from piobreachd to Duke Ellington, Mahler to Silly Wizard, but my heart is made of metal. Thus, I need metalhead phones. A bit of research has led me to the Grado 225s, the HFI 780s, or the DT-880s or 990s. Still up in the air. What I've read lends itself to recommending the 780s to me, especially as they're closed and I need a set of "all-purpose" headphones for everything from listening to music in the office to listening to music on flights. However, it seems like a hell of a lot of people are recommending the DT-880s for metalheads, or the DT-990s. The 225s have seem to come up quite often, as well.

Since it seems like no headphones are complete without a good amp, that'll go into consideration too. The two I've seen that I like the most are the Pocket Amp v.2, and Headroom's Total Bithead. My work computer doesn't have a soundcard (oh yes, onboard sound FTL, ugh), so I'm leaning towards the Bithead as it has the USB DAC, although I like the PAv2 because it seems to offer a bit more flexibility when acting as a portable amp. However, most of the time, the amp will be sitting on my desk, plugged into the computer.

As far as sound goes, I love bass. The more, the better. The last competition system I had in a car metered 151db on a TermLab mic, legal. However, it has to be balanced. Bass without music is just noise. I'm not fond of overly bright highs (for guys familiar with car audio, I HATED titanium tweeters), but again, they need to be balanced for the music. Good bass response and well-toned highs are a must.

Now, given all that, I'm thinking the 780s + Bithead amp. Be a little expensive, I know, but good things are. I'd also like to have these by next weekend (flying home for Easter and figure it'd be a good torture test for the money I just spent), so if either of these products fall under the "harder to get" (reading, it seems some amps can be hard to buy due to manufacturer quirks, build rates, etc), I'd be open to alternate selections. I'll also likely buy the PAv2 down the road (given the price, I don't see any reason not to), but pick up the Bithead now because most of my listening takes place at work while drawing lines everywhere.

So, poke and prod and nudge and even outright kick my selection, toss other ones in the arena and let them fight to the bloody death, and make me spend some money - up to about $400 - to make my ears happy.

 

[DemonicLemming]

 

[Kikuji]

Welcime to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet.

Same here. I end up buying 3 pairs of headphones. I'm saving for an amp. I haven't even been here a month. My advice is to buy what you can used.

 

[Jalo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kikuji /img/forum/go_quote.gif Welcime to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet. Same here. I end up buying 3 pairs of headphones. I'm saving for an amp. I haven't even been here a month. My advice is to buy what you can used.

Yea, buy what you can use for three weeks and then sell it for half price and go again for something else.

Unless you have unlimited fund, otherwise in this hobby you've got to be careful at what you buy. You will end up wanting what the next guy has all the time.

The only solution is buy what you think you want and then never come back to this site again, then you may have a chance to redeem yourself

 

[DemonicLemming]

I know how the wanting the next best thing goes, but at the moment, I think anything would be better than the head-smashing, ear boiling, horrid response SkullCandy headphones I have, not to mention the "snap, crackle, and pop" artifacts in the music from using the onboard sound card at work.

Between all my other hobbies, my wallet is already trying to plan my assassination (I just never leave it enough money to accomplish it). I think one day, it might try to strangle me, or slit my throat with a debit card.

 

[catscratch]

I'm not a metalhead. Well, correction - I'm not a full-time metalhead, but I do listen to my fair share of metal, ranging from old-school Megadeth to more progressive stuff like Cynic, Watchtower, and Meshuggah, to the more extreme black and death metal like Nile, Cryptopsy, old Emperor, and Dissection; some viking metal like Finntroll, and a lot of more experimental not-quite-metal like Devin Townsend, Alchemist, and Arcturus.

I find that a lot of lower-end stuff simply cannot keep up with the speed and complexity of most of the metal that I listen to. The more you overload it with ultra-fast distorted riffs, furious blastbeating, tortured vocals and subsonic bass, the more the transducer starts to lag behind, and everything becomes a homogenous mass rather than being resolved into individual instruments.

I'm going to make a weird suggestion.

Try electrostatic headphones. I know this is not the sort of thing that gets recommended for this purpose especially when you mention bass, but if you want to be able to hear the texture on every cymbal on Nile's "Black Seeds of Vengeance" while the drumming is on full tilt and still pick up every nuance of distortion in the guitar, nothing else will do.

The thing is, electrostatics don't have much in the way of tactile impact, especially in the bass. They have very good audible bass and it is far more detailed than the norm for dynamic bass, but the driver excursion, and hence the thump, usually isn't there. You can get some good thump after spending thousands upon thousands for an amp with enough juice to run a city block, but we're not dealing with that here.

So, audition an electrostatic system if you can, and maybe it will do the trick. I honestly don't like to listen to metal on anything that can't keep up with it, and that rules out everything except 'stats and other planars, planar hybrids like the K340, and balanced drive for dynamic headphones. I wouldn't normally make a left-field recommendation like this, and I definitely like my bass too, but when it comes to metal, speed, I think, is much more important.

Check out the Stax SR-2050, 001, and 005a systems. There are specialized hi-fi stores that carry them, though you'll have to look around. Also check out the AKG K340 if you can; it's a vintage headphone that uses a dynamic mains driver up to 4kHz then crosses over to an electret tweeter. It's very fast, very punchy, and has terrific mids. There are different versions out there with different tonal balance and SQ so getting a pair you like is a big pain, but if you can audition one, go for it. Also, as a general all-rounder, check out the Audio-Technica ATH-A900. It's a dynamic, and on the whole, it's not going to win any serious SQ awards over here, but it's a good-sounding, inexpensive, easy to drive headphone that sounds good out of just about anything. It's a tiny bit bright and there is an upper midrange spike, but for the price and convenience it's a good starter.

I hate the Bithead BTW, I bought one for my dad to use as a transportable/PC source/amp combo and it was very disappointing. The onboard sound card in his Mac Mini is much better. I'd say get an E-MU 0404 or something similar as a starter; it will compete with CD players costing several times more.

What NOT to get: Sennheiser HD580/HD600/HD650. These headphones will have the speed to keep up with metal if you drive them balanced, but out of cheaper single-ended sources they sound sluggish and thick. They're very nice with acoustic music, but definitely not great for metal. If you want to blow $2k on a balanced amp with another $2k on a good balanced source, though, then it's a different story

I can't comment on the DT880/990 or the Ultrasone stuff since I haven't heard it.

The most important bit here is: audition whatever you want to buy beforehand if you can.

 

[Kikuji]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jalo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yea, buy what you can use for three weeks and then sell it for half price and go again for something else.

That is the plan.

I'm searching for the perfect headphone for me.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not a metalhead. Well, correction - I'm not a full-time metalhead, but I do listen to my fair share of metal, ranging from old-school Megadeth to more progressive stuff like Cynic, Watchtower, and Meshuggah, to the more extreme black and death metal like Nile, Cryptopsy, old Emperor, and Dissection; some viking metal like Finntroll, and a lot of more experimental not-quite-metal like Devin Townsend, Alchemist, and Arcturus. I find that a lot of lower-end stuff simply cannot keep up with the speed and complexity of most of the metal that I listen to. The more you overload it with ultra-fast distorted riffs, furious blastbeating, tortured vocals and subsonic bass, the more the transducer starts to lag behind, and everything becomes a homogenous mass rather than being resolved into individual instruments. I'm going to make a weird suggestion. Try electrostatic headphones. I know this is not the sort of thing that gets recommended for this purpose especially when you mention bass, but if you want to be able to hear the texture on every cymbal on Nile's "Black Seeds of Vengeance" while the drumming is on full tilt and still pick up every nuance of distortion in the guitar, nothing else will do. The thing is, electrostatics don't have much in the way of tactile impact, especially in the bass. They have very good audible bass and it is far more detailed than the norm for dynamic bass, but the driver excursion, and hence the thump, usually isn't there. You can get some good thump after spending thousands upon thousands for an amp with enough juice to run a city block, but we're not dealing with that here. So, audition an electrostatic system if you can, and maybe it will do the trick. I honestly don't like to listen to metal on anything that can't keep up with it, and that rules out everything except 'stats and other planars, planar hybrids like the K340, and balanced drive for dynamic headphones. I wouldn't normally make a left-field recommendation like this, and I definitely like my bass too, but when it comes to metal, speed, I think, is much more important. Check out the Stax SR-2050, 001, and 005a systems. There are specialized hi-fi stores that carry them, though you'll have to look around. Also check out the AKG K340 if you can; it's a vintage headphone that uses a dynamic mains driver up to 4kHz then crosses over to an electret tweeter. It's very fast, very punchy, and has terrific mids. There are different versions out there with different tonal balance and SQ so getting a pair you like is a big pain, but if you can audition one, go for it. Also, as a general all-rounder, check out the Audio-Technica ATH-A900. It's a dynamic, and on the whole, it's not going to win any serious SQ awards over here, but it's a good-sounding, inexpensive, easy to drive headphone that sounds good out of just about anything. It's a tiny bit bright and there is an upper midrange spike, but for the price and convenience it's a good starter. I hate the Bithead BTW, I bought one for my dad to use as a transportable/PC source/amp combo and it was very disappointing. The onboard sound card in his Mac Mini is much better. I'd say get an E-MU 0404 or something similar as a starter; it will compete with CD players costing several times more. What NOT to get: Sennheiser HD580/HD600/HD650. These headphones will have the speed to keep up with metal if you drive them balanced, but out of cheaper single-ended sources they sound sluggish and thick. They're very nice with acoustic music, but definitely not great for metal. If you want to blow $2k on a balanced amp with another $2k on a good balanced source, though, then it's a different story I can't comment on the DT880/990 or the Ultrasone stuff since I haven't heard it. The most important bit here is: audition whatever you want to buy beforehand if you can.

Sounds a lot like what I listen to, although lately my tastes have been more grindcore (Gryn/Grimfist), and "Nightwishian" although I do still love Chimaira, Otep, Opeth, and damn near any metal out there, except for the "urg chug chug" stuff that's popular on myspace now.

You nailed it on the speed and keeping up bit - all my background is in car audio, but the stuff out there that could keep up with speed metal was very hard to find, very expensive, and was a pain in the ass to set up and image right. I guess my mistake when it came to headphones was thinking there wasn't as much diversity among them as there is in car audio. D'oh.

The thump bit isn't that important to me, as long as the bass was there. Don't know if it translates right, but "non-thumping" drivers in car audio are considered transparent, because they don't color or affect the music with the physical thud, whereas your generic Circuit City "wonderbox" sounds like someone pounding on a tympanic membrane with Thor's hammer.

My biggest hurdle right now is the fact that I moved about 2 months ago to a new area, and don't know a single store around here, as far as actually taking a listen to things before I buy something. My other limitation is that I really don't know a single brand among headphones and amps, other than a passing familiarity with Sennheiser stuff. I guess that can be good because I don't have any preconceived notions to have to dispel, but I also don't know half the names of the toys you guys throw around

Especially with the amps, and where to buy all this stuff.

I'll definitely keep the points you mentioned in mind, and steer away from those Sennheisers (because if I could afford $4000 for a source and amp setup for headphones, I could afford a dedicated sound room for an open air system, heh) and the Bithead. I think at the moment, a good set of speakers and amp would do, as until I "break in" my ears to listening to music from a quality driver, I'd probably miss a lot of the subtle characteristics that mark the expensive audiophile quality stuff from the more general, better than consumer average stuff.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

My opinion would be to recommend the Denon AH-D2000, used if possible... Great dynamic and deep bass presentation even with the more pedistrian upstream components and closed for better isolation, as you mention their office use. Love mine for my Classic Rock with its bass prominance! They scale up well into the sub $1000 amps IMO.

Best of luck in the game here, with all applicable appologies presupposed....

 

[Drag0n]

Darth Beyers with a 2Move ? Might have to spend a bit more, but if i remember correctly, it may be a full-bass sound, and pretty quick. Really the Beyers should be drivin with a home amp.....but if ya want it portable, the 2Move should drive them.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Where are the best places, preferably online, to buy these headsets and amps at? I've seen the names mentioned on here, but no real specific place of where to buy, other than a few mentions of ebay.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where are the best places, preferably online, to buy these headsets and amps at? I've seen the names mentioned on here, but no real specific place of where to buy, other than a few mentions of ebay.

To the right you'll see "Head-Fi's Sponsors"--->

 

[dreamwhisper]

There was a good thread a while back about an epic deal on DT880's on eBay, $200 i think
eBay is often a great resource as well as amazon, some of the stuff you buy from the headfi sponsors is overpriced especially when it comes down to cable and tweaks

but then again in the world of Audiophilia money is no object
or rather, it's only an object/

 

[STONER1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I stumbled on this site while doing a quick google search on headphones, and not knowing better, clicked the link.

Ha. I know what ya mean. I came across this site trying to figure out what a DAC was. I soon found myself with a new hobby and also a new DAC

along with new headphones, ipod, amps, more headphones, software, DAP's, and dreams of even more headphones....ect. This place is a blackhole.

 

[donunus]

DemonicLemming,
The 780s seem like the cans for you from the descriptions I read about them but if you don't like bright... Try the cheaper and more sensitive ultrasone dj1. They are based on the same design as the 780s but are supposed to be less bright and less needy of an amp.
Here is a link to a review of the old version of the dj1. The new ones should be even better because of the s-logic plus tuning like the 780s.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/rev...-500-a-222713/