What happened to the Shure E4 group buy thread?
May 13, 2005 at 1:22 AM Post #166 of 190
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula
By vendors, I meant sponsors. Sponsors specifically and implicitly get priority in that policy over non-sponsors. And I don't think these various restrictions will result in lower prices to us, which is also what I mean by priority.

I think I've already addressed the issue of what this site is about. Just because someone chooses to donate directly doesn't mean they have the highground of fun or enjoyment of the site over me, nor does it mean that I only come here to save money.



I never said that people who donate have the "highground of fun or enjoyment of the site" My point only is that if you have the means and want this site to succeed, contribute. None of us have the headaches of having to run this site. Cut Jude a little slack here. Sometimes you need rules and not everyone is going to agree. But the idea that you perceive that sponsors are favored over us and therefore won't contribute, I don't understand. As I said before that is your choice and I respect your right to make it.
 
May 13, 2005 at 1:23 AM Post #167 of 190
Blitzdude>See what happens when you use a ps-1 for your ipod mini and don't contribute!!!!! It's like Burn Him, Burn Him at the stake
rs1smile.gif
Joke No offence intended.


With all due respect to everyone, whether a member contributes or not doesn't distract me from the fact how much I enjoy coming here. I enjoy talking to people, trolling people (Mr. Ampless). I expect blitzdude equally enjoys coming here and reading posts and whatnot. It is not my place or right to suggest he contributes to this site. It is not my place or right to suggest he does not contribute to this site. I talk to Blitzdude because I get on with him. I also get on with Tyrion and Gsferrari. I consider you lot all friends. Let's not do this dudes.

I thought we were here to troll Mr.Ampless anyways......
rs1smile.gif
 
May 13, 2005 at 1:26 AM Post #168 of 190
Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19
Blitzdude>See what happens when you use a ps-1 for your ipod mini and don't contribute!!!!! It's like Burn Him, Burn Him at the stake
rs1smile.gif
Joke No offence intended.


With all due respect to everyone, whether a member contributes or not doesn't distract me from the fact how much I enjoy coming here. I enjoy talking to people, trolling people (Mr. Ampless). I expect blitzdude equally enjoys coming here and reading posts and whatnot. It is not my place or right to suggest he contributes to this site. It is not my place or right to suggest he does not contribute to this site. I talk to Blitzdude because I get on with him. I also get on with Tyrion and Gsferrari. I consider you lot all friends. Let's not do this dudes.

I thought we were here to troll Mr.Ampless anyways......
rs1smile.gif



Come on, we need a good fight every so often. It livens the place up a bit.
 
May 13, 2005 at 1:27 AM Post #169 of 190
so back to the group buy guidelines...

it seems to me that the price offered in a group buy will be somewhat determined by the size of the group, and the size of the group is in turn determined by the price offered (e.g. "I'm in depending on the price"). Any way to resolve this by soliciting multiple prices for different group sizes? Is this not actually a problem?
 
May 13, 2005 at 1:29 AM Post #170 of 190
I'm not offended by the comments...everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Anyone who thinks I'm here just to save money just needs to think it through a bit more. It's kind of an odd comment considering how much I've posted as well as the content of many of those posts.

Whenever you go on a site and have a different take than others on policies/procedures, some people are going to disagree with you. No ongoing personal attacks, so no big deal.
 
May 13, 2005 at 1:31 AM Post #171 of 190
Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion
I never said that people who donate have the "highground of fun or enjoyment of the site" My point only is that if you have the means and want this site to succeed, contribute. None of us have the headaches of having to run this site. Cut Jude a little slack here. Sometimes you need rules and not everyone is going to agree. But the idea that you perceive that sponsors are favored over us and therefore won't contribute, I don't understand. As I said before that is your choose and I respect your right to make it.


I agree with this with one reservation. Contribute if you wish, period (I intend to). The site will be here as long as it's viable, albeit if that viability may be closely dependent on the vision of a select few. If you don't/can't contribute, involvement is still as open as the Web itself. If not enough people contribute, the site may eventually succumb to financial realities. I for one would hate to see that happen.
 
May 13, 2005 at 1:33 AM Post #172 of 190
Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19
Blitzdude>See what happens when you use a ps-1 for your ipod mini and don't contribute!!!!! It's like Burn Him, Burn Him at the stake
rs1smile.gif
Joke No offence intended.


With all due respect to everyone, whether a member contributes or not doesn't distract me from the fact how much I enjoy coming here. I enjoy talking to people, trolling people (Mr. Ampless). I expect blitzdude equally enjoys coming here and reading posts and whatnot. It is not my place or right to suggest he contributes to this site. It is not my place or right to suggest he does not contribute to this site. I talk to Blitzdude because I get on with him. I also get on with Tyrion and Gsferrari. I consider you lot all friends. Let's not do this dudes.

I thought we were here to troll Mr.Ampless anyways......
rs1smile.gif



LMAO
 
May 13, 2005 at 2:15 AM Post #173 of 190
The primary purpose of Head-fi as I see it is to talk about headphones and headphone related stuff. Reading through this thread is seems a lot of people have lost sight of that, or they don't get it in the first place. This is a place for discussing headphone stuff, and Jude's priority as far as I can tell is to keep this site running so that we'll all have a place to talk about headphones well into the future.

The for sale/trade forums, group buys, that to me is just part of the fringe benefits of the forum, it's by no means the core purpose of Head-fi. This is not the headphone bazaar nor the headphone bargain gateway. If you're here just to get a good deal on headphones & gear and nothing else, then to be honest, you're a leach.
 
May 13, 2005 at 2:16 AM Post #174 of 190
I tell you what after previewing some of the later pages that this thread alone has generated: I'm going to contribute another small amount of money back to Jude's Head-Fi when I get my weekly (and measly) paycheck from B&N tonight at 12:45 AM EST! I'm out of this thread. Jude, best of luck man. I'm rooting that you'll get the rules for the group buy worked out well and I certainly hope you turn a small profit by the end of this year.
 
May 13, 2005 at 3:15 AM Post #175 of 190
The truth is that y'all don't have to contribute diddly squat.

When done right, corporate interaction with a community is one of giving the community what it wants efficiently.

Efficiency implies energy gain through organization.

From a purely free market viewpoint, upon the initial release of a product I would bid myself down to cost----real cost, which is about 15% over my cost----to get a buy of say 200 E4c. In a fair, open bidding war, I would bid down to cost! My motive is this: I don't want any of my small competitiors to gain any ground on me. If I flood the community with an initial buy, the some smaller guy doesn't make enough on the follow up sales on the smaller orders to grow against me.

But that's really not healthy for the community; I shouldn't get some advantage against the competition because I'm selfish and bigger than the competition. That's why, even in our FREE MARKET here in these GREAT United States, we have anti-trust laws, inside trading laws, price fixing laws, common carrier laws, public utility laws, etc ad nauseum, that formalize the FREE MARKET.

Think about this: the cost of my sponsorship is nothing compared to my ability to monopolize the community in a fair, FREE MARKET, bidding war because, I want your loyaly as an enthusiast. But if I got it fully, the community wouldn't reap the reward of the creativeness of competition between the various players.

In other words: Just because a community has formal structure, it doesn't indicate that the community isn't safegarding liberty with it's laws.

So ...
The best thing is a way to limit how deep I would go is on a blind bid so as not to deny others the profit needed to grow. But to also limit opportunists from coming in and taking money out of the markety without contributing to it.

Back to the big picture: You, not having to pay diddly squat to pay Jude for the bandwidth that gets the locals discounts at Head-Fi. Which, BTW, effectively pays you for the collective wisdom of your position as members.

In the information age, when correctly done, advertisement can be benefitial. It is worth it to me, and to all information age vendors, to provide you with meaningas carried through information (because by definition it is disproportionatly cheap) to make your hardware buying experience more valuable. Therefore: information age vendors will be more than happy to sponsor your play time if they are given a fair shot at getting an order.

I bolded meaning before because this hobby is built from meaningfull structures. Drawing value relationships betwwen various products is meaningfull. Learning about electronics through DIY projects is meaningfull. Comparing frequency responce graphs of headphones to ones subjective experience is meaningful.

Therefore ......... sigh

When this community buys something it has to be willing to discipline itself onto a formal structure that puts as much money meaningfully back into the community as possible.

Meaning ....

If you structure yourself right, sponsors would be HAPPY to foot the bill for you next million posts.
 
May 13, 2005 at 5:15 AM Post #176 of 190
I'll be the first to admit I'm a newbie to the www.head-fi.org world.

But as I see it, Jude seems like he has the best interests in mind. And he seems particularly articulate, as well as intelligent. I think if people start getting bad group-buy prices, they will notice.. we are not entirely stupid. IMHO, the objections should continue, but I honestly think Jude is looking out for everyone.

Maybe he isn't, but head-fi is the most helpful hobbyist forum I've seen to date. And although many of us are the contributors in making this place what it is, we must never forget that we all stand on one person's shoulder, and that is Jude.

Luckily for us, he seems intelligent enough to listen to us and make the right choices... how far would head-fi have come if he wasn't?
 
May 13, 2005 at 5:54 AM Post #177 of 190
Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius
The primary purpose of Head-fi as I see it is to talk about headphones and headphone related stuff. Reading through this thread is seems a lot of people have lost sight of that, or they don't get it in the first place. This is a place for discussing headphone stuff, and Jude's priority as far as I can tell is to keep this site running so that we'll all have a place to talk about headphones well into the future.

The for sale/trade forums, group buys, that to me is just part of the fringe benefits of the forum, it's by no means the core purpose of Head-fi. This is not the headphone bazaar nor the headphone bargain gateway.



I've just read this entire thread, and this recent post by aeruis pretty much sums up my point of view as well (although I didn't quote the last sentence because I don't think there is any need for name calling).

In any case, I'm happy that head-fi has become such a strong and passionate community for audio enthusiasts. I've learned a whole lot here, have participated in many ways, and have made some great friends through head-fi - not "just" friends, but great friends! So I'm thankful for what head-fi represents and consider my chancing upon it to have been a serendiptous blessing in my life. Really. It's fun, it's free, and it's a nice place to hang out. It's all good. Yet, I am quite concerned about its future, particularly in terms of finances.

In my opinoin, these sorts of threads - although quite interesting and not intended by any one participant or group of participants to be disrespectful in any way - do nonetheless have the tendency to become counterproductive. Everyone wants to play armchair quarterback and give their views about how the site ought to be run. We should all just be happy to have what we have in head-fi, full stop. To the extent that Jude feels the need to make certain changes for the broader good of preserving the future of the site, we should acknowledege his right to do so and leave it at that. Jude is an open-minded and even-tempered guy, and I'm quite sure that he does benefit on an information level (at least to some extent) by getting a general understanding of how his "constituants" might "feel" about any one particular aspect of the site's administration.

But the fact remains that he's the person who needs to make the bulk of the business decisions, at least under the present model. And you know what, the man seems to be quite comfortable with this responsibility! To the extent that I may have some views that I feel might be helpful to him, the route that I would normally take would be via PM.

Again, I'm not saying that this isn't interesting stuff to read, and do suspect that Jude will benefit from the good points that many people have made, but I hope this sort of thing never happens in a grocery store. I can't imagine what it would be like trying to buy a 2 liter bottle of Diet Coke in the midst of 101 people giving their views to the general manager about how to run the place. Maybe I'm missing something, but if I were Jude (and you can all be thankful that I'm not), I'd be tempted to write a very simple policy: All group buys are hereby banned! I really can't see where this would hurt anyone too badly, and it would ensure that the sponsors are never undercut in any serious way. There is always Google if you're looking for a better deal.

In other words, I don't think that the whole "goup buy issue" is that big of an "issue" at all. It is certainly on the periphery of what head-fi represents, so please let's let the man decide what he thinks will work best and then get behind him and support his reasoned conclusions, whatever they might be.
 
May 13, 2005 at 1:05 PM Post #178 of 190
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus
Maybe I'm missing something, but if I were Jude (and you can all be thankful that I'm not), I'd be tempted to write a very simple policy: All group buys are hereby banned! I really can't see where this would hurt anyone too badly, and it would ensure that the sponsors are never undercut in any serious way. There is always Google if you're looking for a better deal.


Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are missing something. Some group buys conducted on this site are not for commercial products! If you want good examples of this wander on over to the DIY forum for 100% not-for-profit group buys run on products that you can't buy anywhere else. How's that possible? Because we created them! Banning these types of efforts would criple a portion of the DIY community, mainly people like myself who while capable of building an amp based on a PCB cannot PTP wire from a circuit diagram. And I have no issue with regulation of these group buys as well to help ensure that those involved are legit and honorable in their intentions.

Again, this is just an example of how much more there is to this community than the Headphones forum. I realize that that forum is probably where a majority of memebers spend their time, but there's a good number of us elsewhere too
smily_headphones1.gif
.

Another couple cents down the drain...

Nate
 
May 13, 2005 at 1:35 PM Post #179 of 190
“The for sale/trade forums, group buys, that to me is just part of the fringe benefits of the forum,”

How about making the Group Buy and For Sale / Trade Forums a Membership benefit available to contributors? If people only joined to use those facilities it would generate revenue and a traceable form of Payment for membership would be another step in preventing fraud?


I hope Jude gave up on this thread and is moving along with his plans. It pains me to see the moderators wasting so much of their valuable “Donated” time addressing these petty issues.


Mitch
 

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