What happened to the Shure E4 group buy thread?

[spike33]

Sure he seems like a good guy, but what is stopping someone else from making an account, telling everyone there's a great offer at some site, people buy off the site and never hear from them again. I'm surprised some of you don't follow this simple logic. And the way he went about it... Why didn't he start a thread and discuss it with other members like PtheD? It seemed like he was competing with him for customers.. The earphones aren't even out yet, what is the hurry? And $20 off... that's the saddest discount I've ever seen for a group buy. I'd rather pay a bit more and get it from headroom.

 

[PinchyCM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vranswer Simple. You send someone the money -- you subsequently don't get the goods -- you get hurt.

i think you completely missed the point. you order it yourself man. through earphonesolutions.com. you're not giving him any money. wow.

 

[NiceCans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinchyCM yeah, the one that rahul kid proposed just emailed you the code. i don't see how people get "hurt." it's not like he's paying for any of it. you buy what you want. simple as that...no? but whateva.

When he emails you the discount code it also states:
"the 178$ price may/may not show during checkout but the earphonesolutions.com guys will give you the discount before your credit card is billed."
This appears to require a degree of trust I am not willing to gamble $20 on!

Not to mention the email's openning line:
"hi
thanks for registering with me.

Yes, he seems like a decent guy (from what little you can tell from an email and a post or two), but who knows . . . . ?

 

[braillediver]

I for one think it is exemplary that Jude Is taking a proactive approach to these issues and not oblivious to possible problems.

There’s a lot of money moving around via Head-Fi members. This site is going to attract more “professional” rip-off artists as it expands. This place is lucky in that there have been very few out right frauds committed against members.


Besides it would have been very easy and well within Judes rights to impose an outright ban on Group Buys. Instead he’s trying to mitigate any problems in advance by defining a policy.


Mitch

 

[bLue_oNioN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 Sure he seems like a good guy, but what is stopping someone else from making an account, telling everyone there's a great offer at some site, people buy off the site and never hear from them again. I'm surprised some of you don't follow this simple logic.

Just because a similar action can be abused, doesn't mean the poster is an abuser this time around. Should guidelines be set in place? Most certainly. Should Head-Fi'ers have jumped on the poor fellow without any information whatsoever? Most certainly not. It reveals those who like to talk fluff about the Head-Fi spirit as shams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 And the way he went about it... Why didn't he start a thread and discuss it with other members like PtheD?

There was nothing to discuss, it was a coupon code that provides a preset discount. Group buy thread like the one PtheD setup have room for negotiation, hence the discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 It seemed like he was competing with him for customers..

So, if I stumble on a deal tomorrow for the E4s and post about it, I am suddenly competing with PtheD?


Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 The earphones aren't even out yet, what is the hurry?

This is a rather silly question, the E4 group buy thread started by PtheD began months before this one. In fact, if I remember correctly, the concept began sometime in January, when the E4s had just been announced as an upcoming product. At that time, nobody knew who was going to sell them, or what price the E4s might actually be set at. Despite this, thousands of people posted when the E4s hadn't even been auditioned by a single Head-Fi member.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 And $20 off... that's the saddest discount I've ever seen for a group buy. I'd rather pay a bit more and get it from headroom.

Any discount is a discount. Based on each individual's financial condition, there are those who will spring for the lower price, and those who will not. The important thing is to have the option there. To dismiss the posting of an option based on the amount discounted is ridiculous. As for purchasing from HeadRoom, that is your prerogative, as is everyone elses. But that doesn't give anybody the right to jump on the OP in question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceCans When he emails you the discount code it also states: "the 178$ price may/may not show during checkout but the earphonesolutions.com guys will give you the discount before your credit card is billed." This appears to require a degree of trust I am not willing to gamble $20 on!

If you have doubts about the discount, contact EarphoneSolutions yourself either through their toll-free number or e-mail and ask about the coupon code. Find out if it's valid or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceCans Not to mention the email's openning line: "hi thanks for registering with me.

Registering as in checking in with him for the coupon code, dude. The guy is from India, to expect precise English from him is unreasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceCans Yes, he seems like a decent guy (from what little you can tell from an email and a post or two), but who knows . . . . ?

He seems like a decent guy... "but who knows"... so let's all jump on him? Since when was the Head-Fi mentality guilty until proven innocent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver I for one think it is exemplary that Jude Is taking a proactive approach to these issues and not oblivious to possible problems.

As do I, a policy regarding Group Buys would be most helpful in clearing confusion, especially given the volume of Group Buys we have experienced lately.

 

[spike33]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLue_oNioN Just because a similar action can be abused, doesn't mean the poster is an abuser this time around. Should guidelines be set in place? Most certainly. Should Head-Fi'ers have jumped on the poor fellow without any information whatsoever? Most certainly not. It reveals those who like to talk fluff about the Head-Fi spirit as shams. There was nothing to discuss, it was a coupon code that provides a preset discount. Group buy thread like the one PtheD setup have room for negotiation, hence the discussion. So, if I stumble on a deal tomorrow for the E4s and post about it, I am suddenly competing with PtheD?

So you agree it could be abused. Good.
A coupon code for something that's not even out yet. Since PtheD has been working so hard to organize the group buy, if you found a good deal, why wouldn't you talk to him about it? Group buys aren't suppose to be about competition. All involved should be working together to get best price. This was a case of someone prematurely jumping the gun without realizing the consequences.

 

[viator122]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLue_oNioN So, if I stumble on a deal tomorrow for the E4s and post about it, I am suddenly competing with PtheD?

First, that was certainly the tone of Rahul's post. Second, the appropriate thing to do is post the offer in the existing group buy thread informing of the deal you found, discussing with PtheD whether this is a better deal than his and then informing the membership as to what you've found. People get suspicious when someone posts a thread with all this "Buy now! Don't wait!" and "I'm confident PthD will not beat this offer."

 

[Blitzula]

While I'm sure Jude was concerned about possible fraud and that this site is partially a labor of love for him (and I appreciate that), it was the vendor posting that is primarily driving this process change.

Per Jude's own words:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude So why not just let anyone do it? Low prices for everybody, right? Who cares who's coordinating it? Who cares if it's someone associated with the company or not? (And, again, I don't think that's the case here.) Here's one important reason: if I let that happen, it seriously diminishes incentive from those Members of the Trade who can engage in and profit from group buy activity to ever advertise here or sponsor here, when volume promotions can be had for free on the Main Forums.

This is about helping vendors-not members-first. I think many posters are being very naive about this issue.

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula ....This is about helping vendors-not members-first. I think many posters are being very naive about this issue.

No, this is about the fact that, as it stands now, anyone can start a Group Buy, and so free advertising to advertise a quick sale (and so quick revenue) in the Main Forums is just a profile registration away. If you can't see why that's a problem, then I won't bother arguing this with you.

 

[bLue_oNioN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 So you agree it could be abused. Good.

I could definitely see where the concept could be abused. It's been abused before. What I don't agree with is the actions of the many Head-Fi'ers who took it upon themselves to lynch this particular fellow. In the past, e-mails addresses and IPs were actually traced, investigative results were posted -- in this case, people had nothing concrete to go by, but decided to trash the thread regardless. It was needless hostility and completely contrary to the image I had formed of Head-Fi prior to this incident.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 A coupon code for something that's not even out yet.

EarphoneSolutions has always used coupon codes as a vehicle to institute lower prices (because of MAP regulations, they cannot post their lowest price on their website).

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 Since PtheD has been working so hard to organize the group buy, if you found a good deal, why wouldn't you talk to him about it? Group buys aren't suppose to be about competition. All involved should be working together to get best price. This was a case of someone prematurely jumping the gun without realizing the consequences.

If I found an actual group buy deal offered by EarphoneSolutions, I would probably give PtheD a heads up and see if we could work together to further sweeten the deal as a team. But that would be a decision made entirely on my part. The poster in question was not an active member, having joined on April 6th. Group buys take time to coordinate. Does the poster not have a right to take no interest in becoming a diplomatic representative for Head-Fi? And if he doesn't, are his good intentions suddenly null and void? I think not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 First, that was certainly the tone of Rahul's post.

As stated previously, English was clearly a second language for this fellow. His structure was atrocious and required some thought to understand. In my opinion, to suggest that we should go so far as to read between the lines and infer intentions from already poor phrasings is ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 Second, the appropriate thing to do is post the offer in the existing group buy thread informing of the deal you found, discussing with PtheD whether this is a better deal than his and then informing the membership as to what you've found. People get suspicious when someone posts a thread with all this "Buy now! Don't wait!" and "I'm confident PthD will not beat this offer."

It seemed to me that this was a fellow with a coupon code in his hands, excited to share with the Head-Fi crowd. There was no obligation whatsoever for him to become involved in Head-Fi negotiations, nor was there any evidence that suggests to me he comprehended the complexities of Head-Fi relationships. Even I didn't know this place was so political and I've been here for a decent amount of time.

I don't know where your quotations are from since the thread has since been hiden from view, but given that it was apparent the poster was not fluent in the English language, did you ever consider the possibility that his phrasings may not have been as precise as you assume them to be? That perhaps he was trying to convey the idea that the EarphoneSolutions price surpassed any that had been offered to Head-Fi thus far in the group buy thread?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula While I'm sure Jude was concerned about possible fraud and that this site is partially a labor of love for him (and I appreciate that), it was the vendor posting that is primarily driving this process change.

I do hope that Jude will place the group buy thread back into view so that Head-Fi members can understand what instigated this debate. If rskbug's post is in violation of Group Buy Policies, it should be simply be edited out. The most important posts in that thread were by Tyll from HeadRoom.

 

[Seijang]

I think Jude just wants to set up guidelines in order to ensure that any group buy that does happen will not end up hurting the gullible head-fi'ers involved

. I must admit though, Rahul's deal was not as suspicious, seeing as how nothing was being directed through him ~ all he wanted to send you was a code.

 

[bLue_oNioN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude No, this is about the fact that, as it stands now, anyone can start a Group Buy, and so free advertising to advertise a quick sale (and so quick revenue) in the Main Forums is just a profile registration away. If you can't see why that's a problem, then I won't bother arguing this with you.

Jude, will you be putting the thread back up for reference once Group Buy Policies are set? There were some very important statements that Tyll made, all of which are pertinent to the issue at hand, that I think could be very helpful.

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula ....it was the vendor posting that is primarily driving this process change....

No, that's not accurate. What primarily drove me to this was the thread itself, and primarily the fact that it was started by someone with only nine posts previously. From another post of mine: Quote:

Originally Posted by jude What makes me uncomfortable about this one, and why I realize that, because of it, guidelines are going to have to be laid down, is because rskbug is a quite-new member, and had just nine posts prior to this thread. It's not my opinion that he's associated with the vendor he chose, but, let's face it, here's what this thread suggests: That anyone can do it. This thread is "How-to-make-a-quick-$2000-to-$3000-on-Head-Fi 101," and, given how easy this has proven to be to set up and promote, I know that we'll see more of this down the road if we don't create some guidelines; and I know that, as easy as this is, some dealers who don't give much of a hoot about Head-Fi, except for the sale, will simply arrange the group buys themselves by registering profiles to promote them on the Main Forums. (Again, though I don't feel that's the case here, this thread was a too clear a statement about how open that door really is now.)

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLue_oNioN Jude, will you be putting the thread back up for reference once Group Buy Policies are set? There were some very important statements that Tyll made, all of which are pertinent to the issue at hand, that I think could be very helpful.

Possibly. I have too much going on right now to sit and prune that thread, but I may do that later.

 

[viator122]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLue_oNioN It seemed to me that this was a fellow with a coupon code in his hands, excited to share with the Head-Fi crowd. There was no obligation whatsoever for him to become involved in Head-Fi negotiations, nor was there any evidence that suggests to me he comprehended the complexities of Head-Fi relationships. Even I didn't know this place was so political and I've been here for a decent amount of time.

I think you're probably right, he's just a guy with a lack of experience here, poor English skills and a lot of enthusiasm for his discount. You're also right that he has no obligation to be diplomatic. However, when his lack of diplomacy means people here buying at what might not be the best price, you have to admit that Head-Fiers have the right to be protective of their own, you know? He doesn't have to be prudent or diplomatic, but at the same time I don't have to like it.
Quote:

I don't know where your quotations are from since the thread has since been hiden from view, but given that it was apparent the poster was not fluent in the English language, did you ever consider the possibility that his phrasings may not have been as precise as you assume them to be? That perhaps he was trying to convey the idea that the EarphoneSolutions price surpassed any that had been offered to Head-Fi thus far in the group buy thread?

I apologize, at a second glance I see that things which seem clear to me as I type them might not be so clear to others (maybe this was rskbug's problem, too). Those were not direct quotes, they were closer to my impressions of the tone of his posts, although I do believe he said something like, "I am confident you will not get a better price than $178."