[mgh24]

First thing I need help with, is this the best forum to put this post in?
 
For my first foray into hifi headphones I bought Soundmagic HP150.  Was looking in the $200-250 price range, and these seemed to fit the bill.  Maybe this is a question specifically about the HP150, but I'm thinking it is not.
 
Just got these Thursday, so have not listened to them a lot, but I can already tell they have a huge amount of bass compared to anything else I have listened to, speakers, headphones, anything.  I'm 58, so have been listening for quite a while now though never with extremely high end equipment.
 
Everything I read about these headphones was that they were not bass heavy, in fact most said they were pretty neutral, and bass heads would not be happy with them (I know for certain now that I am no bass head).
 
So my question is, if these are bass neutral, and they have considerably more bass than I have ever heard before, what gives?  Have I been listening to bass light equipment all my life?  I just sold an old pair of nice Yamaha speakers, I had an old pair of Sony headphones, though I do not remember the model, they were $80 20 years ago, and still have a well worn pair of Sennheiser HD420's.  Since getting the HP150 I have been listening to them through an inexpensive DVD/CD player, and an Onkyo receiver, using what Onkyo calls CD Direct, which they describe as passing the signal through with minimal processing, so I figured that should be a relatively neutral signal.
 
Even putting on a CD I am very familiar with, like The Beatles Abbey Road, the bass is just way more than I remember ever hearing.
Listened to Elton John "I've Seen That Movie Too", from Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, and the drum kick is almost annoying to me.
 
Now I can put in some Linkin Park, some good hard rock that I am not as familiar with, and it sounds fine to me.  Put on some Beethoven, and I am simply blown away.  No question, there is some low, and very deep bass that can come from these headphones.
 
So am I only now hearing the bass the way the producers intended? I have a headphone that was described as being pretty flat, not boosting anything, with a source that I thought would be fairly flat.
 
I know I will adjust, or become accustomed to the new sound, and I can always EQ, but it perplexes me.
 
Maybe I should have tried the Beyerdynammic DT880, or the AKG701?  Seem like they were often described as being a little "light" on the bass.
 
Again, maybe there is a better forum to place this question, but I would really like to hear what people think about my experience.
 
Many thanks!

 

[adisib]

Though I had never heard them myself, I always got the impression they were kind of like the ATH M50s with respect to bass. Many people consider it bass-heavy, while bassheads say it isn't basshead level. It really depends on who is saying it. A bass-lover might consider it neutral while someone who is used to more neutral headphones will consider it bass-heavy. Headphones can also pressurize an adequate amount of air for bass easier than speakers also, so many speakers can tend to be quite bass-light without a sub-woofer if that is what you are comparing it to.
 
Probably you just need burn-in though. Not as in letting the headphones play on their own, but using them for a while and letting your brain adjust to the sound signature. For example, after using my M50s a while I had actually used an EQ to increase the bass. Then using the KRK-KNS6400 for a while and going back to the M50s I was astounded at how much bass there was and had to turn the bass down. Use them a little more and let us know what you think then after you have had time to adjust.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
So am I only now hearing the bass the way the producers intended?

 
What speakers were you using? Judging by the age I an guess what sort they are, and over at the next house (we have three houses on adjacent lots) my grandfather had an Sansui analog system with HUGE speakers...and even my Wharfedale Pacific Pi10 (I still miss these speakers) gave him a bass-induced headache. He might have 10in drivers, but they barely have any excursion off the surrounds. Even on vocal jazz with very subtle double bass my speakers' bass reproduction was louder and yet more precise - his was weaker, and while not boomy, had notes blending into each other unlike the more precise delivery of my modern 6in drivers (with fancy cone materials, heavy duty suspension, and rare earth magnets).

 

[mgh24]

Speakers were Yamaha NS1000M.  In their day well respected, and still sought after (I had no trouble at all selling them after using them for 35 years).
 
Thanks for the responses.  I will keep using them, but may order a different pair, something completely different, and send one back.

 

[Solrighal]

Are you confident that your hearing is as good as it used to be? I'm 49 and my hearing has definitely deteriorated over the years, although in a different direction, it would seem. I'm incredibly sensitive to treble harshness which is why my AKG Q701's spend more time on the shelf than on my head. I eventually found the Sennheiser HD 650 which has a very slight mid-bass hump and rolled off treble. Perfect - for me.

You might try to hear a pair of Sennheiser HD 600's as they're as close to flat as you're going to hear without the music sounding boring. They do need a bit of power but nothing ridiculous.

You might also try getting music onto the computer and experimenting with EQ. This can help you identify just what kind of sound you prefer. Then go looking for headphones close to that signature.

Good luck.

 

[PleasantSounds]

I guess what you're not used to hearing is the sub bass frequencies. The HP150 extends very far into this region, while many other headphones and speakers do not reproduce it almost at all. Now, because the range is extended, the perception is that the overall bass quantity has increased.
If you play with an equalizer and mute down sounds below 40-50Hz, you will hear again what you're used to. 

 

[cel4145]

Though I had never heard them myself, I always got the impression they were kind of like the ATH M50s with respect to bass.

The M50s definitely have more bass than the HP150 (I own both). The HP150s have just a touch of bass emphasis that rises up from the mids. Definitely more "neutral" class.

I guess what you're not used to hearing is the sub bass frequencies. The HP150 extends very far into this region, while many other headphones and speakers do not reproduce it almost at all. Now, because the range is extended, the perception is that the overall bass quantity has increased.
If you play with an equalizer and mute down sounds below 40-50Hz, you will hear again what you're used to. 

+1

Were your Yamahas bookshelf speakers? Many will start rolling off in bass somewhere in the 50 to 70hz range. As far as the HD420s, I haven't heard of them in a while. I owned a pair 30 years ago (I remember them being uncomfortable as heck). From what I remember, they are definitely very bass light with rolled off bass. So very well could be you are just not used to hearing bass from recordings. I think you might want to give yourself just a little time to adapt to the HP150s.

Also, leave the HP150s playing for a day or so at moderately loud volume. Not everyone believes in the benefit of headphone break-in, but I think it helps.

The HP150 are 32 ohm and should work well with most portable devices. However, some AVRs many not have the proper low output impedance which could cause them to produce more bass with your Onkyo than they normally would.

 

[mgh24]

I really appreciate the responses here.
 
The server software for my Sqeezebox had an equalizer plugin, so I can use it, while leaving the receiver alone.  This is what I did last night, and it did help.  Have not experimented with the high frequencies.
The picture is awful,but you can read below the graph what the adjustments are to each level.

 
I am sure I can adjust to the higher bass, or what I perceive as more bass, but that is the thing that seems so strange to me, that I would need to grow accustomed to something so different from what I have experienced.  That of course doesn't mean it would be a bad thing, just strange to me.
 
These are very nice headphones.  Not sure if these would be described as mid-fi? but they are unquestionably the best sounding I have ever had.  Beethoven's 9th has never sounded so good to me.
I think they isolate very well.  Twice yesterday my wife had to come over and touch me to get my attention, I had no idea she was even in the room.

 

[cel4145]

You might find if you let yourself adjust some to the bass, you discover you were missing something all along. Since you brought up Beethoven 9, I was listening to movement II (Cleveland Symphony Orchestra with Christoph von Dohnanyi, 1990) this week, and I thought the HP150s did a good job with the kettle drums in the opening and throughout.

 

[Notus]

From my experience reading tons of reviews and listening to headphones, bass quantity is often difficult subject. Most often there are quite different views on the matter.
Also i have noticed the words neutral / balanced does not mean the same thing for everybody. To me Neutral means that no region of the sound is pronounced in any way, you hear all of the sound at the same level. This means you hear the bass but you don't feel it. Its very likely your previous gear had rolled off bass. I can say from experience that if you have not experienced proper sub bass before with headphones, it can appear very strong. You could say almost bass heavy.

 

[cel4145]

From my experience reading tons of reviews and listening to headphones, bass quantity is often difficult subject. Most often there are quite different views on the matter.
Also i have noticed the words neutral / balanced does not mean the same thing for everybody. To me Neutral means that no region of the sound is pronounced in any way, you hear all of the sound at the same level. This means you hear the bass but you don't feel it. Its very likely your previous gear had rolled off bass. I can say from experience that if you have not experienced proper sub bass before with headphones, it can appear very strong. You could say almost bass heavy.

That's because most people don't know what neutral sounds like. There are some of us, though, who use calibrated home audio systems (or pro audio systems) that have been measured and EQd to neutral who do know what neutral bass sounds like

 

[mgh24]

That's because most people don't know what neutral sounds like. There are some of us, though, who use calibrated home audio systems (or pro audio systems) that have been measured and EQd to neutral who do know what neutral bass sounds like

And in your earlier post you said the 150's only had a "touch" of bass emphasis?  So compared to your calibrated system, the 150 is close, as far as bass sound?  The "kick" that I am hearing is more what a neutral bass should produce?  
 
Thanks!

 

[Notus]

That's because most people don't know what neutral sounds like. There are some of us, though, who use calibrated home audio systems (or pro audio systems) that have been measured and EQd to neutral who do know what neutral bass sounds like 

I agree, some reviews are spot on with the sound. From my experience, people who have listened to a lot of headphones or higher end audio in general. Often give the most accurate reviews. I think it has to do with what you pointed out, they have heard what neutral bass is. 
But i am not saying reviews from in-experienced people are bad, some are actually very good.
 

I am sure I can adjust to the higher bass, or what I perceive as more bass, but that is the thing that seems so strange to me, that I would need to grow accustomed to something so different from what I have experienced.  That of course doesn't mean it would be a bad thing, just strange to me.

Human hearing or the way we perceive sound is quite interesting, over time you can get accustomed to almost any type of sound. That means bass light / neutral / bass heavy. Quite often if you don't have proper reference point it can be hard to tell what is actually neutral or what is not. Its possible your "memory" is set on bass light sound.
Also its always possible some people are just more sensitive to some frequency like Bass or Treble.

 

[cel4145]

And in your earlier post you said the 150's only had a "touch" of bass emphasis?  So compared to your calibrated system, the 150 is close, as far as bass sound?  The "kick" that I am hearing is more what a neutral bass should produce?  

Thanks!

My subwoofer setup is configured to run a few db hot above neutral. The HP150 is pretty close to how it sounds--much more so than a headphone like the ATH-M50 which clearly has a good bit more bass emphasis.

So yes. As far as headphones go, the HP150 are fairly neutral close to neutral. How close? I'm not sure anyone can tell you with certainty, except maybe an audio mixing engineer who works with audio all day long.

 

[cel4145]

I agree, some reviews are spot on with the sound. From my experience, people who have listened to a lot of headphones or higher end audio in general. Often give the most accurate reviews. I think it has to do with what you pointed out, they have heard what neutral bass is. 

But i am not saying reviews from in-experienced people are bad, some are actually very good.

I didn't think you were thinking that. Just makes it REALLY hard to talk about neutral bass (or not)