[rodbac]

Whatever our motivations?? How about learning something!

Again, you deserve a round of applause for not needing any information to understand this thoroughly, but if you read back through the thread, it was clear there was a misunderstanding that didn't get cleared up until the second page.

Quit taking the search for information so personally.

When things are scrutinized and they end up survive the scrutiny intact (unlike so many things around here traditionally), they're that much stronger for the ordeal. THAT'S the scientific method in a nutshell, and this is a perfect example how it can work FOR audiophiles sometimes, too (despite their traditional disdain for it).

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim D Hi panda, No harm intended. Keep the discussion going and keep it technical as you have been doing. You haven't been one to throw any chairs. I was referring to those that for whatever motivations questioned the existance of true differential balanced Gilmores or Blockheads and that they must perform some sort of tom-foolery to work because headphones just can't be operated that way (i.e. but that would mean they would require special cabling...OH WAIT THEY DO!). Getting back to topic, I'm wondering about the merits of just using a better plug like 4-pin XLR and dual-mono operation myself. I'm not a fan of TRS plugs.

Then let me to apologize for having interpreted things into your post, which weren't there.

 

[dip16amp]

I agree that we are not talking about pseudo-balanced since we are talking about balanced headphones, balanced amplifier, and balanced source. All of them operate with both inverted and non-inverted signals and the headphone is the two wire balanced termination (load) so it does not have the ground of an active balanced receiver.

A balanced amplifier does not have to be real expensive. It can be two cmoy amps, two mints, two clones, two dynalo, two dynahi connected to a balanced source.

Driving headphones like the HD650 directly from the XLR balanced output of the DAC1 demonstrates the advantage of the faster slew rate without an amp. Add the additional power of balanced amplifiers and you get both of the main benefits of driving balanced headphones. Other advantages like less cross talk and cable noise cancellation are just minor benefits.

 

[Kurt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wali ... most audiophiles don't like to use balanced source and amp because it adds more circuits to the signal path and for short runs it has no particular use...

Quote from the Meitner DCC2 manual, one of the higher regarded sources (just check the Audiogon and Audio Asylum forums):

Analog outputs
• Balanced on XLR for signals after pre-amp
• Unbalanced on RCA for signals after pre-amp
• Balanced on XLR for signals bypassing pre-amp
• Unbalanced on RCA for signals bypassing pre-amp

I’m sure they implement them just to raise the prices and not bec. the costumers want them to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim D Its like watching the Jerry Springer equivalent of a kids science show. But for those that get their jollies off doing so, I'd have to say you'd probably be more successful sticking with the low hanging fruit.

ROTFLMAO.

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

Its like watching the Jerry Springer equivalent of a kids science show. But for those that get their jollies off doing so, I'd have to say you'd probably be more successful sticking with the low hanging fruit.

I was going to leave it alone, but since everyone seems to want to give him high-fives for his immature little "dig" at those who needed clarification...

I have to say it's disheartening to see how much contempt some of you have for skepticism. I think you may not be entirely familiar with the benefits that come with it.

 

[sethk]

Rodbac, I don't mean any offence, but when your starting post argues that +2V and -2V terminals would produce "0v", it's clear that your lack of understanding of such a basic electrical concept means that you just don't have the knowledge to properly evaluate the technical aspects of most of these discussions regarding the benefits or lack thereof of 1) balanced amplification and 2) balanced cables. These two concepts have been regularly mixed up in this thread, despite numerous and repeated attempts by some of the more technically astute and informed members in this thread to clarify things. On one hand you defend your right to criticize and question concepts such as balanced connectors, cables and amplification, but you are offended that people respond to your arguments. I think that some of the personal digs are unwarranted, but as I say in my opening sentence (not too rudely I hope) it's hard not to draw some conclusions about your level of knowledge based on your posts and arguments. And believe me there are many valid arguments for and against balanced audio, but none that you have originally raised here.
This is not a dig, and I'm not saying that balanced audio is a universally good thing, but it is a valid design philosophy, and it's not voodoo. Many of the most respected names in high-end audio (some would argue that respected and high-end should never be used in the same sentence

)employ fully balanced circuits in their products despite the additional cost. Some companies provide balanced connectors in unbalanced products, a common source of derision, but there are a good number of truly balanced designs as well. The increase in complexity, if handled properly is not a universal downside, as it results some measurably improved parameters in the output, and more importantly results in good sounding products, which I, and many other members here (not to mention respected magazines and reviewers) all have experienced. As to whether they universally sound better than unbalanced components, I'm personally not completely convinced. I think it's just as possible to make a good sounding unblanced component / cable (in many situations) but I have seen than most components *with proper balanced designs* that provide both balanced and unbalanced inputs / outputs (note the emphasis on proper balanced design) sound better when utililizing the balanced i/o and as part of a fully balanced component chain. Balanced audio may not be as prevalent in the world of consumer audio as unbalanced, but in the high-end it's way too late at this point to call it a fad. If anything, it's growing more common and prevalent all the time.

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

This is not a dig, and I'm not saying that balanced audio is a universally good thing, but it is a valid design philosophy, and it's not voodoo.

Yeah, Seth, we covered this a long time ago.

Quote:

Rodbac, I don't mean any offence, but when your starting post argues that +2V and -2V terminals would produce "0v", it's clear that your lack of understanding of such a basic electrical concept means that you just don't have the knowledge to properly evaluate the technical aspects of most of these discussions regarding the benefits or lack thereof of 1) balanced amplification and 2) balanced cables.

Welcome to last week- this was addressed. The potential difference is indeed 4v, but the net charge is 0v, which is what I was talking about (inappropriately for this situation, which is why I dropped it).

Where on earth did you get the impression I'm "offended" at someone responding to my arguments?? I have no problem whatsoever with responses to my arguments.

When I'm not sure about something, I'm more than willing to admit it, and did so frequently in this thread.

Go read my posts again- you'll see that you misunderstood my intent.

 

[Ken]

what does balanced sound like.
Who has the answer.
who has done the big A B Test
at the end of the day the teckno stuff doesnt matter
its bums on seats type thinking

DOES IT SOUND BETTER ???????
IS IT WORTH IT ??????

a simple answer from someone that knows .....................