[halcyon]

nt

 

[halcyon]

nt

 

[halcyon]

What can recabling do (not necessarily will do):

- change headphone from unbalanced configuration to balanced (with assumed balanced amplification)

- remove common ground between the drivers (better stereo crosstalk figures, a measurable result)

- change the shielding of the cable

- change cosmetics, handling properties, length and connectors of the cable

- alter the electronic capabilities of the cable in the audible frequency range (this is debatable for cables that are not broken on purpose)

- make you lose more money, like so many other things here at Head-Fi

- make some people hear differences in the headphones' sound (true or placebo, that's debated too often here. One must find out by trying it out oneself)

Did I forget something?

 

[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbloudg20 All I have to say is, you non-believers revel in your innocence. It allows you to spend more money on other equipment...

"Innocence?" You say that as if we're ignorant little children that don't know any better. I might say the same about believers, but I was trying to remain civil.

Besides, even if I did believe in cables, I would never pay for overpriced aftermarket cables. Do you have ANY idea of the markup on those products? It's absolutely asinine. You could make something yourself of exact same build quality for a fraction of the price.

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbloudg20 This argument happens about once a week here. Non believers like to take jabs.. believers like to defend. All I have to say is, you non-believers revel in your innocence. It allows you to spend more money on other equipment...

I think though that the point of diminishing returns hits hardest with cables. If I have to choose to spend my money and my choices are source, amp, headphones, and ICs, ICs by FAR are the last thing on my list. Unlike the rest, I really don't believe ICs are the make or break of a system (provided your ICs of some basic level of quality, i.e. well-shielded, quality copper, etc.).

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emon Do you have ANY idea of the markup on those products?

If I had a nickel for everytime someone brought up this logic in a discussion about practically any commerical product, man Orpheus here I come...

 

[sum]

Prices aside, some basic thinking about the physics makes sense. Electron flow is different material to material and latice to latice. It also could have many quantum ramifications that we are unaware of. Really, at the end of the day we don't have real scientific proof of the difference, but there are many theories. Check the explainations from Cardas, Analysis Plus, and Siltech. They are all fairly different, but make intuitive sense.

I can tell you that I hear a difference between different cables, and like anything else, more expensive isn't necessarily better. Although, for the most part in my experience, more expensive does get you greater performance (be it frequency coherence, greater highs or lows, etc.); however, the value of the improvement is up to the end user.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor ...Unlike the rest, I really don't believe ICs are the make or break of a system (provided your ICs of some basic level of quality, i.e. well-shielded, quality copper, etc.).

I'm with Tyll here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens I, too, was a little leary of these claims, but I can tell you for a fact that when I went around the country 4 years ago with the world of headphones tour the most common exclaimation of surprise was when people would test the HD600 with various cables. Many folks claimed that the differences between cables were much more easily heard than the differences between amps! Had I not seen it myself so many times I would have had a hard time really believing my own ears when I heard the differences for myself---because it is there and quite obvious. ... Regardless of the actual technical details, better (what ever that means) cable does sound better---and the differences are fairly significant in my experience.

...as to my ears sonic differences caused by headphone cables are absolutely in the same league as such with amps and sources and of greater importance than in the case of ICs -- most likely because of the greater length --, therefore they can absolutely change a system from mediocre to great sounding.
.

 

[jbloudg20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor I think though that the point of diminishing returns hits hardest with cables. If I have to choose to spend my money and my choices are source, amp, headphones, and ICs, ICs by FAR are the last thing on my list. Unlike the rest, I really don't believe ICs are the make or break of a system (provided your ICs of some basic level of quality, i.e. well-shielded, quality copper, etc.).

I agree completely. Do cables make a difference? To my ears, yes they do. Do I beleive the hype about recabling a headphone, and having it be a complete turn around? Not at all. Diminishing returns hits hardest with cables.

I also do not purchase aftermarket cables, I build my own, since I do not believe that (equivalent to my ~$50 in parts IC's) it is worth it to sepnd $300 on cables, when I can clearly save by making them myself.

All I'm saying is, to me, I can detect a difference between the crappy cable I was using, and cheap starquads. I can also hear a difference between the starquads and my silver ICs. Is this difference night and day? Not at all. Is it worth my $50? Absolutley.

With that said, I find high price tag cables a little overkill, but then again, my equipment isn't high end enough to pick up on the difference. To each, his own.

 

[jbloudg20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emon You could make something yourself of exact same build quality for a fraction of the price.

I do. I don't purchase aftermarket cables, but not because of the markup, because I enjoy making them.

 

[Inkmo]

Sets 'em on fire if my experiments have proved anything

.

But really, I also cannot personally imagine that great of a change being made. Maybe if the metals inside are just a tad bit more pure and free of oxygen yadayada. To tell you the truth, I think once you're dealing with a product that classifies as 'good' around here, any changes between it and a great product are going to be pretty minor. I think as you pay more money, you're really cashing out for something more finely tuned and a little more in line with your personal sonic tastes (don't forget something that looks cooler. L3000?), as opposed to a day and night difference. Personally, I think my KSC35 and HD201 sound pretty much as good as my AD900. The 900 is just more fine tuned. And it has velour pads. Mmm.. velour. It's like, you don't really go all that far 'up' after the 35. You just move around back and forth till your comfortable. And get velour pads....

Of course, if someone will refute what I just said, I'd really like to hear what you're listening to. And I don't mean that in a 'c'mon, punk, make my day' way, but a 'I would really enjoy to hear something that sounds better than what I have - ,maybe I have been doing this wrong' sorta way.

Second: I can, though, appreciate tinkering and DIY. It would be a vast improvement to my HD201 if the frickin' cord wasn't 10 feet long!

 

[threedd97]

Placebo.

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ ...as to my ears sonic differences caused by headphone cables are absolutely in the same league as such with amps and sources and of greater importance than in the case of ICs -- most likely because of the greater length --, therefore they can absolutely change a system from mediocre to great sounding. .

JaZZ, I agee with you most of the time but on this one, I just don't agree with you. I have NEVER witnessed a system that went from mediocre to great sounding due to ICs. Until I do, I just don't believe you!

 

[aaroncort]

I think most people would be able to A-B the Zu Mobius and the stock cable. The difference is most definitly not a placebo effect. However if in fact the after market cables make it "better" is a more clouded area. What is better exactly? In my opinion better is a more farward presentation in a far too dark pair of headphones. I loved the stock sound of the hd650's till heard them with the zu mobius. Now it would be hard to go back.

 

[Dane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon Did I forget something?

I feel that cable microphonics is often overlooked, perhaps the most important property of a headphone cable IMO. For example, the cable on my A900 is incredibly microphonic - it's actually impressive. My CD3000, which has a similar looking but more flexible cable, has much, much less cable microphonics. Some of the aftermarket cables apper to be quite inflexible, so microphonics could be a problem.