[Dynobot]

Excellent, thanks for the detailed information!
 
 

 
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Here is a Question...
 
What creates sound stage on regular CD's????
 
Most all recordings are done in studios using separate tracks and blended together to make a complete song.  Artists my record on separate days, some together, some not, but most often not in the position that we 'seem' to hear them in via our speakers.  That is to say, we hear a sound-STAGE, but the cd was recorded in a recording-booth.
 

 
Track separation: namely the difference in volume between left and right. The brain hears it as "stronger sound from the left", for example, and ends up putting a picture that side. Theoretically the higher the bit depth (thus the higher the dynamic range), the greater the potential soundstage. Of course, the audibility hugely comes into question at that point. Rarely will you actually have a sound from the left actually be a 100% pan - a 100% pan is actually painful to listen to on headphones IMO (try an old coltrane album to hear this for yourself). There are also issues like reverb and treble response, but I'd say they're less responsible than the headphones. You can test the track separation idea by using a software DSP for total crossfeed (mono) and turning it down slowly.
 
Binaural recording uses the same principal but I think it takes into account locational HRTF. I'd actually really like to try recording some of my music binaurally.
 

 

[MrGreen]

That should say channel separation. I was starting to talk about the mixing process but ended up talking about stereo files instead

 

[Dynobot]

Thanks, your pretty smart for a head of Cabbage....

 
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That should say channel separation. I was starting to talk about the mixing process but ended up talking about stereo files instead

 

[MrGreen]

I wouldn't go that far. Keep in mind of course that none of these things actually makes a soundstage without the human brain, which is largely responsible for these "effects" actually working. A computer, for example, with functioning ears wouldn't "hear" like we do.

 

[Dynobot]

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I wouldn't go that far. Keep in mind of course that none of these things actually makes a soundstage without the human brain, which is largely responsible for these "effects" actually working. A computer, for example, with functioning ears wouldn't "hear" like we do.

Yeah that would be perception in the human brain that gives the electrical signals coming in from the auditory nerve inside the cochlea if I remember correctly.
 
What I find interesting is that hearing is the only sense that your imagination can alone can make real.  For example you can't imagine a taste and actually taste it or a touch and actually feel it on your skin, but you can actually talk to yourself with your mind alone and actually hear yourself, as well as other sounds.

 

[Happy Camper]

You hear of a headstage in three d, height, width and depth. How do you position instrument locations in the height and depth axis?

 

[MrGreen]

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You hear of a headstage in three d, height, width and depth. How do you position instrument locations in the height and depth axis?

I believe it has to do with treble response. The outer edges of the ear have a different alteration to high frequencies depending on the angle at which they are struck. The reason for this is that waves of a high frequency bend less (sounds with large wavelengths for example are very good at bending around large objects - which is why whales communicate so effectively over such large distances). We translate this difference as coming from a particular angle or area. You also have different points of resonance in the ear, which accentuate different fequencies. You also have other interferences like the face, shoulders, hair etc
 
I'm actually not sure about height, but I assume it is the same thing. I have synesthesia so I have weird phenomena when it comes to the height of pitches so it's kind of hard to isolate which is a product of the synesthesia and the function of the ears. For example, I actually hear bass sounds as lower in space than vocals, which usually sound at about eye level in headphones for me, while bass can extend anywhere from chest to chin. I can't say whether this is the case for everyone, though. It's more likely it is common for all people than some other things i experience which are hard to put into words.
 
 
Edit: http://www.head-acoustics.de/downloads/eng/application_notes/Equalization_brochure.pdf here's a brief brochure on two types of equalisation by which headphones produce the same sound as a flat speaker (free = from the front, diffuse = from everywhere). They also mention "independant of direction EQ", which I believe is an average of the perceived sounds of the brain for any sound from any angle - which I believe are the same sounds used in things like the smyth realiser. There's a section on how the head works (and how we perceive sound location).

 

[MrGreen]

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You hear of a headstage in three d, height, width and depth. How do you position instrument locations in the height and depth axis?

I believe it has to do with treble response. The outer edges of the ear have a different alteration to high frequencies depending on the angle at which they are struck. The reason for this is that waves of a high frequency bend less (sounds with large wavelengths for example are very good at bending around large objects - which is why whales communicate so effectively over such large distances). We translate this difference as coming from a particular angle or area. You also have different points of resonance in the ear, which accentuate different fequencies. You also have other interferences like the face, shoulders, hair etc
 
I'm actually not sure about height, but I assume it is the same thing. I have synesthesia so I have weird phenomena when it comes to the height of pitches so it's kind of hard to isolate which is a product of the synesthesia and the function of the ears. For example, I actually hear bass sounds as lower in space than vocals, which usually sound at about eye level in headphones for me, while bass can extend anywhere from chest to chin. I can't say whether this is the case for everyone, though. It's more likely it is common for all people than some other things i experience which are hard to put into words.
 
 
Edit: http://www.head-acoustics.de/downloads/eng/application_notes/Equalization_brochure.pdf here's a brief brochure on two types of equalisation by which headphones produce the same sound as a flat speaker (free = from the front, diffuse = from everywhere). They also mention "independant of direction EQ", which I believe is an average of the perceived sounds of the brain for any sound from any angle - which I believe are the same sounds used in things like the smyth realiser. There's a section on how the head works (and how we perceive sound location).
 
EDIT:: It appears the independant of direction EQ refers to the role of the parts of the ears that are struck regardless of direction.

 

[JerryLove]

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Yeah that would be perception in the human brain that gives the electrical signals coming in from the auditory nerve inside the cochlea if I remember correctly.  
What I find interesting is that hearing is the only sense that your imagination can alone can make real.  For example you can't imagine a taste and actually taste it or a touch and actually feel it on your skin, but you can actually talk to yourself with your mind alone and actually hear yourself, as well as other sounds.

I don't actually hear myself when I think. Something is wrong with one of us

 

[MrGreen]

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Yeah that would be perception in the human brain that gives the electrical signals coming in from the auditory nerve inside the cochlea if I remember correctly.  
What I find interesting is that hearing is the only sense that your imagination can alone can make real.  For example you can't imagine a taste and actually taste it or a touch and actually feel it on your skin, but you can actually talk to yourself with your mind alone and actually hear yourself, as well as other sounds.

I don't actually hear myself when I think. Something is wrong with one of us

I don't think he means the actual sound comes out. He means you can, for example, get a song stuck in your head - vividly so. You can even imagine how the vocals sound etc. When was the last time you got a colour, or an image of your pet stuck in your head?

 

[Dynobot]

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Yeah that would be perception in the human brain that gives the electrical signals coming in from the auditory nerve inside the cochlea if I remember correctly.  
What I find interesting is that hearing is the only sense that your imagination can alone can make real.  For example you can't imagine a taste and actually taste it or a touch and actually feel it on your skin, but you can actually talk to yourself with your mind alone and actually hear yourself, as well as other sounds.

I don't actually hear myself when I think. Something is wrong with one of us

I don't think he means the actual sound comes out. He means you can, for example, get a song stuck in your head - vividly so. You can even imagine how the vocals sound etc. When was the last time you got a colour, or an image of your pet stuck in your head?

 
 
 
 
Not even going so far as a song stuck in your head.  Just the fact that you can talk to yourself...well I can talk to myself and I hear my voice in my head.  When I read I hear what I am reading in my mind as well.  If this does not happen to someone I think something is wrong with them, not me.
 
 

 

[Dynobot]

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Yeah that would be perception in the human brain that gives the electrical signals coming in from the auditory nerve inside the cochlea if I remember correctly.  
What I find interesting is that hearing is the only sense that your imagination can alone can make real.  For example you can't imagine a taste and actually taste it or a touch and actually feel it on your skin, but you can actually talk to yourself with your mind alone and actually hear yourself, as well as other sounds.

I don't actually hear myself when I think. Something is wrong with one of us

 
I can hear what you are thinking Jerry....."Hmmmmm that Dynobot guy must be crazy"
 
But rest assured I am no less sane today than I was yesterday....

 

[MrGreen]

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Not even going so far as a song stuck in your head.  Just the fact that you can talk to yourself...well I can talk to myself and I hear my voice in my head.  When I read I hear what I am reading in my mind as well.  If this does not happen to someone I think something is wrong with them, not me.
 
 

Reading aloud in your head is a throwback of the way we learn to read (sup education theory). I don't hear my voice when I read quickly.
 
It's also the way I hear my voice as well, not the way it actually sounds.

 

[EnOYiN]

Since I noticed the link to Darth Nuts review in the 2nd post is down I'll post it again for anyone who wishes to read it. It's well worth investing some time in I'd say. Link.

 

[matbhuvi]

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Since I noticed the link to Darth Nuts review in the 2nd post is down I'll post it again for anyone who wishes to read it. It's well worth investing some time in I'd say. Link.

Thanks for the link