[WraithApe]

  Ah sorry didnt realize! Will do next time. 

 
No need to apologize! I don't want to appear to be trying to squash discussion either - that's never my intention - just that everyone has their limits 

 

[Hutnicks]

  It's been said before, but I think it's worth re-iterating: start a thread on Marxism is you wish to discuss the work of Marx in this level of detail (or use the spoiler approach suggested by @metalsonata); it's essentially spam for those of us who aren't interested in the subject. This is the reason I un-subbed from this thread last time - 3 pages or more of over-zealous discussion of a niche subject.

Karl Marx Fi???  Something about that just does not ring right.

 
On Murakami. I should clarify and point out that 1Q84 was the first book of his I read. When you take that context into account I think you will not find it surprising that my view of his previous works is that of the same ingredients simply mixed differently.

 

[mutabor]

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Your evaluation of the way I learned Marx to a criticism of American Universities is flawed and argumentatively weak.
 
Specifically, in my University almost all the other teachers for the class spent a heavy amount of time on class struggle. The thing is that, from what I have read, Marx doesn't delve into class conflict in his manuscripts, the gundrisse, and only very slightly does in Capital. The manifesto, on the other hand, is all about class conflict. One of the reasons why Marx and class conflict have come hand in hand is because of scholarly translations: until the late 20th century, many of Marx's works weren't translated so the main interpretation of Marx was through the lens of class struggle (the Manifesto and such). Recent Marxist scholars debate a variety of interpretations of Marx because they have more of his texts available (large portions of epm for example). Obviously, we were not taught all of them, which is a shame.
 
Furthermore, liberal leftist agendas are full of talk about class struggle ... I dont see your point there. 
 
With this said, an interpretation of Marx devoid of class struggle is something that has swept through academia, starting in the 90s. It could be argued that academia has separated the working class and "practical" part of Marx by reading his theory without looking at it through the lens of the manifesto, turning it into something purely theoretical. I do agree with this, and am somewhat saddened by this theoretical reading of Marx. But if we think through this framework, the manifesto uses class struggle to create a means through which capitalism can be overthrown (forgive me for the oversimplification, im trying to make a point). Why does it have to be? Because of the internal contradictions that plague it, the dehumanization of those within it, and the freedom that results from overthrowing it. These points are in theoretical Marx, and perhaps keeping in mind what Marx is trying to do, where he is coming from, and what he envisions is the most valuable takeaway from Marx.
 
With that said, I will definitely be reading scholarly papers and rereading the Manifesto and parts of Capital this winter break. Any suggestions on your part of things I should read/ listen to?
 
As always, the point of a good education is not to simply teach but to inspire curiosity.

 
 

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

I will tell how I look at it. In my opinion his Manifesto was the most important part of his ideology and his economical observations ( which followed later when he moved to England) were no more than justifications or consequence of his class struggle theory which was part of his historical materialism. Attempts to divide his economical system from his political ideology is to divide a cause from a consequence as if they were unrelated. When you recognize that his political ideology was wrong then you HAVE to recognize that his economical system was wrong as well because it was extension of his political theory ( the mistake at the core makes the whole logic flawed). Of course not all elements of ideology are wrong if analyzed separately. So my point is that Marx's economical system was an extension of his political system expressed in Manifesto. 

 

[WraithApe]

To return to the main topic, currently reading: 'Remember Who You Are' by prolific science fiction writer David Icke (at the behest of an inculcated friend). In order to maintain my sanity, also reading a primer on general relativity.

 

[PalJoey]

  To return to the main topic, currently reading: 'Remember Who You Are' by prolific science fiction writer David Icke (at the behest of an inculcated friend). In order to maintain my sanity, also reading a primer on general relativity.

David Icke? Mediocre goalkeeper, snooker commentator, wearer of turquoise tracksuits and paranoid theorist.
 
Here's his list of famous Satanists and shape-shifting Lizard overlords: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/list_of_satanist.htm

 

[Hutnicks]

  David Icke? Mediocre goalkeeper, snooker commentator, wearer of turquoise tracksuits and paranoid theorist.
 
Here's his list of famous Satanists and shape-shifting Lizard overlords: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/list_of_satanist.htm

You guys shure that isn't Scientology?

 

[WraithApe]

  David Icke? Mediocre goalkeeper, snooker commentator, wearer of turquoise tracksuits and paranoid theorist.
 
Here's his list of famous Satanists and shape-shifting Lizard overlords: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/list_of_satanist.htm

 
The very same. I find if read strictly as a kind of dystopian sci-fi, it's possible to get through it and even marvel somewhat at his febrile imagination.

 

[kid vic]

Started this and am halfway through, starts slow but it sucks you in over time.
 

 

[longbowbbs]

  Started this and am halfway through, starts slow but it sucks you in over time.
 

The movie was incredibly depressing.

 

[Hutnicks]

An oddity here. A "true life memoir" that reads more like a Sven Hassel novel. There are question as to the veracity of the book. I found the descriptions to be more accurate than most on the operation of the Tiger in combat. Not for the faint of heart as he describes a running losing battle against the Soviet onslaught in detail and captures the true fear of running for ones life.

 

[DLeeWebb]

 

  Started this and am halfway through, starts slow but it sucks you in over time.
 

The movie was incredibly depressing.

loved the book, loved the movie a little less...

 

[Quinto]

 

An oddity here. A "true life memoir" that reads more like a Sven Hassel novel. There are question as to the veracity of the book. I found the descriptions to be more accurate than most on the operation of the Tiger in combat. Not for the faint of heart as he describes a running losing battle against the Soviet onslaught in detail and captures the true fear of running for ones life.

Sven Hassel..ahh those were the days, I had a Hassel books addiction in my youth looooong time ago lol Porta and stuff..cool

 

[Hutnicks]

 
Sven Hassel..ahh those were the days, I had a Hassel books addiction in my youth looooong time ago lol Porta and stuff..cool

Misspent youth You might enjoy these then. He wrote 2 one published posthumously. They are brief and cover a single action so they are easy to get through. His descriptions of the operations of both the Tiger and Panther are worth the read alone.

 

[RA66]

I'm currently reading Steve Williams book Out of the Rough. Love to hear about Tiger Woods and the way he acts, always entertaining.

 

[kageroh]

Currently re-reading some of the Discworld novels, and then more Dune =3