[Tyll Hertsens]

Now there's a perfect example of how a guy who is really into the stuff thinks layers deeper, and the stuff we've been talking about is just the assumed environment.

(And PHEW! Thank God he didn't come on here and have to spank me for saying some dumkopf remark. Guess I musta done OK.

)

 

[saint.panda]

Tyll, thanks a lot for taking your time to write this long reply. Lots to ponder on!

 

[Jahn]

You know i remember Jpelg saying that the balanced outputs on the Melos SHA-Gold I have aren't really true balanced outputs. Does anyone know what that means, who knows this amp? Does this mean I can't just plug in some cans recabled for balanced use and get a "true" balanced sound? All inputs into the Melos are balanced btw, it's just that the Melos has 5 ways to get a signal out-

1)RCA active tube out
2)RCA passive out
3)Tape loop out
4)1/4 unbalanced headphone out
5)XLR balanced outs

Here's a pic of the back of the preamp, you can see the XLR outs.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn All inputs into the Melos are balanced btw

Are you sure? It looks liike all RCA connectors. Do you mean that all the inputs have balancing transformers or some other king of phase splitting circuitry?

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens Are you sure? It looks liike all RCA connectors. Do you mean that all the inputs have balancing transformers or some other king of phase splitting circuitry?

Isn't that them peaking out from the right of the RCA's?

 

[Salt Peanuts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer Isn't that them peaking out from the right of the RCA's?

I think those are balanced outs, though it's bit odd to see balanced outs without balanced ins.

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens It's just because I've had to learn all this stuff in a dumbed down mode to understand it myself.

Thanks Tyll for your answers!

At least you can empathsize with my question...

Trogdor

PS I heard the Balanced Max at the Philly SE meet and hope to try it again at the NYC meet coming up!

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salt Peanuts I think those are balanced outs, though it's bit odd to see balanced outs without balanced ins.

Agreed, though since I've heard about it from carlo before I was expecting it...

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens Are you sure? It looks liike all RCA connectors. Do you mean that all the inputs have balancing transformers or some other king of phase splitting circuitry?

OOPS I meant all inputs are indeed RCA! Unbalanced! Yet there is one pair of balanced XLR outputs, so howzat?

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn OOPS I meant all inputs are indeed RCA! Unbalanced! Yet there is one pair of balanced XLR outputs, so howzat?

As Tyll said, unless you have some kind of transformer on the input I don't see how the balanced output is really an advantage here!

I could be wrong, but the single ended connection is certain sharing the common in, I just don't see in this case why a balanced output would be an advantage other than capability!

Trogdor

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor As Tyll said, unless you have some kind of transformer on the input I don't see how the balanced output is really an advantage here! I could be wrong, but the single ended connection is certain sharing the common in, I just don't see in this case why a balanced output would be an advantage other than capability! Trogdor

I hear you Trogdor, so it's basically saving me an RCA to XLR adaptor dongle, that's it? Bah, oh well! Thanks!

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

George might have built a decent phase splitter in there, so I don't think it's necessarily all bad. But it's not a truly balanced device.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

You know i remember Jpelg saying that the balanced outputs on the Melos SHA-Gold I have aren't really true balanced outputs. Does anyone know what that means, who knows this amp? Does this mean I can't just plug in some cans recabled for balanced use and get a "true" balanced sound? All inputs into the Melos are balanced btw, it's just that the Melos has 5 ways to get a signal out-

The basic circuit of the Melos is single ended (SET gain stage with active CCS) so any balanced connections would be SE/BAL transformer outputs.The actual headphone jack connection is not to a triode but to a solid state device which is also single ended and would require an entire circuit rebuild to make it balanced

 

[allennokisi]

Other than having to rewire your headphones, which is probably the more trivial task compared to what you have to do the amp, anyone with an amp with output transformers can try balanced output by rewiring the output transformers. Just take the lead from the output transformer secondary that goes to ground and use that as the negative output to the rewired headphones.

Though this wouldn't provide any technical improvement except for separating the grounds for each channel. Someone earlier mentioned this as a benefit of balanced output. Maybe better channel separation? I suppose it would also provide RF rejection but at the relatively low impedences of headphones I don't think any RF can get injected anyway.

Any amplifiers that are bridged are basically doing balanced output. They do provide twice as much power but in practical applications (PA, car audio, studio amps) the distortion doesn't go down but usually goes up. I suppose this is from imperfect matching. An exception I can think of are Nelson Pass's amplifiers that were designed specifically to cancel distortions with completely balanced operation from input to output. I think he has a patent for the design aswell. In the non audiophile world balanced output is just a way to get a higher power output without having to resort to extremely high rail voltages since high voltage parts do cost significantly more.

 

[Rob N]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleestack The amp that PATB is referring to is my new SDS-XLR. With all respect to PATB, I'd have to strongly disagree with his characterization of the balanced v. single ended outputs on the amp. His listening session was somewhat brief and the amp was almost straight out of the box. I lived with a maxed MPX3 for a year and am very familiar with the sound of Mikhal's amps. I would say that the balanced output on the SDS-XLR has a very similar tonal quality to the MPX3, however the SDS-XLR is more refined, produces a wider soundstage and is significantly more dynamic. If I were to characterize the single ended output on the SDS-XLR, I would have to say it is a bit softer and certainly does not have the incredible dynamics of the balanced output.

Is your single ended headphone jack wired the same as mine? Mine uses both sides of the amp with left single through one input tube and right through the other input tube.