[jmmtn4aj]

For example Sennheisers having a veil (save the 595), low to mid range Grados and Alessandros having recessed bass and high highs/mids.

I recently got back into the headphone game and bought myself an LD MKIII. Upon using it with my ATH-A700s I was surprised at how damn warm it sounded, especially since I recalled Audio Technicas having recessed mids. I'm thinking now that I should be getting a brand with a blackhole for the mids.

What are the trademark sound characteristics for brands like Ultrasone, Sonys and such? I'm interested at models up to the 250/300 USD mark used.

 

[jawang]

obviously, every manufacturer has models that vary greatly in sound

...but my general impression based on what ive heard is:

AKG - fast, neutral, analytical/detailed (except k601 which sounded slightly warm to me). dj models are obviously different too
Beyer - varies wildly, but id say most of their phones are forward sounding with sharp highs. leaning toward bright (except for dt770 pro 80/250)
Senn - warm, musical. slightly bassy, except for the hd800 which was pretty neutral to me
grado - bright, aggressive mids. i dont think they have recessed bass, it just seems that way on some models because of the mids/highs. exception is the gs1000, which felt more laid back in the mids (but had sharp highs to my ears).
ultrasone - bassy, smooth sound
sony - varies wildly, but id say most of their phones sound analytical (except maybe r10/qualia/etc. which ive never heard). xb300-xb700s are exceptions
denon - bassy, punchy sound.
audiotechnica - bass-light (a few exceptions though, ie L3000/m50), forward midrange

 

[jmmtn4aj]

Ack, AT bass light? Here I was thinking my A700s were a little too bass heavy with the tubes. The bass is quick though, so the thumping is a bit more obvious than other phones with slow, heavy bass.

Well okay, I'll make this simpler. I miss the sound of MS1s coupled with the Gilmore Lite LE, although I do NOT miss the physical design of the MS1 or the lack of soundstage. I particular loved the details in the highs and mid. How can I put this.. with the MKIII and A700s I get a sense that it's warm, but the mids aren't particularly detailed (perhaps because the bass is also too heavy), and it drowns out the treble (meaning I've resorted to boosting the treble in iTunes). What cans should I get for a more pronounced treble and more detailed mids with less overbearing bass?

My driver tubes are Mullards by the way, which model I can't recall. But the person I got it from said the particular power/driver tube combo was supposed to be bright, so I'm not exactly interested in spending more on tubes to find out if it could be 'brighter'.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Wow. Just wow.

Look, you're better off looking at individual headphones than trying to paint each brand with a broad brush. Most manufacturers offer a range of sound through their models. If you try to go this way, this thread will devolve into the exceptions. Which will prove my point.

Also, can we put this Sennheiser "veil" urban legend to rest?

Sennheisers can sound veiled on certain amps. Sennheisers do not sound veiled on other amps.

Since the veil is not present 100% of the time, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the veil is caused by some amps.

If there really was a veil, it would be present on every amp. But it isn't.

Similarly, you have to consider that every headphone will sound slightly different depending on the amp you use.

If you want to find a particular sound in your price range, start researching headphones in that range. Trying to make a broad assertion by brand is not going to help. It'll just devolve into a flamewar.

 

[1Time]

In general, this is just way too general.

"What are the sound characteristics of the different brands again?"

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmmtn4aj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ack, AT bass light? Here I was thinking my A700s were a little too bass heavy with the tubes. The bass is quick though, so the thumping is a bit more obvious than other phones with slow, heavy bass. Well okay, I'll make this simpler. I miss the sound of MS1s coupled with the Gilmore Lite LE, although I do NOT miss the physical design of the MS1 or the lack of soundstage. I particular loved the details in the highs and mid. How can I put this.. with the MKIII and A700s I get a sense that it's warm, but the mids aren't particularly detailed (perhaps because the bass is also too heavy), and it drowns out the treble (meaning I've resorted to boosting the treble in iTunes). What cans should I get for a more pronounced treble and more detailed mids with less overbearing bass? My driver tubes are Mullards by the way, which model I can't recall. But the person I got it from said the particular power/driver tube combo was supposed to be bright, so I'm not exactly interested in spending more on tubes to find out if it could be 'brighter'.

thats exactly why its hard to generalize about brands. the a700/a900 have a lot of bass, but a lot of A-T's popular phones (including their current flagship w5000, and especially their open phones) tend to be bass light

 

[Valens7]

I don't think there's any harm in the OP's question on the face of it. However, I do feel that Uncle Erik is correct. Not only about the Sennheiser "veil", but also about the futility of trying to draw up a comprehensive list of the sort the OP seems to be asking for.

 

[Amarphael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmmtn4aj /img/forum/go_quote.gif What cans should I get for a more pronounced treble and more detailed mids with less overbearing bass?

You should defienetly check out the higher AKG offers then, The K501&K601 are reportedly pretty mid-oriented than the more analytical K701 and will be a good match for your amp. If you prefer to stay with closed than you can always go up to A900, to me one of the most well-rounded and balanced cans i've heared at any price point with some very sweet mids AFAIR but they're likely (didn't comare ciritically) cosiderably less detalied than the K701 i had.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since the veil is not present 100% of the time, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the veil is caused by some amps.

Or maybe some amps are just bright.

The veil totally exists on 600/650 IMHO partly due to rolled off highs and also fairly low detail levels compared to headphones I like atm which results in everything sounded blanketed.



Regarding people saying "its just too general", it's not too general, people are getting to specific and some brands completely have a house sound (eg. Grado has always been fairly punchy). I'd love to give my impressions of my encounters with particular brands but I am afraid people will start QQing. For the record, you are right regarding your ATH-AXXX being slightly bassy through a MKIII. Depending on your tube setup (and gain setup) the MKIII is tipped towards bass/mids moreso than highs, and closed ATH tend to have a slightly forward bass response but still have slightly coloured mids.

 

[jmmtn4aj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Just wow. Look, you're better off looking at individual headphones than trying to paint each brand with a broad brush. Most manufacturers offer a range of sound through their models. If you try to go this way, this thread will devolve into the exceptions. Which will prove my point. Also, can we put this Sennheiser "veil" urban legend to rest? Sennheisers can sound veiled on certain amps. Sennheisers do not sound veiled on other amps. Since the veil is not present 100% of the time, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the veil is caused by some amps. If there really was a veil, it would be present on every amp. But it isn't. Similarly, you have to consider that every headphone will sound slightly different depending on the amp you use. If you want to find a particular sound in your price range, start researching headphones in that range. Trying to make a broad assertion by brand is not going to help. It'll just devolve into a flamewar.

Woah, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today

If you want to be pedantic, I would like to argue that for the vast majority of us our concept of the various sound characteristics of the various models are mostly non-existent with completely arbitrary scales used to measured what loose terms we can attach to them. Like the vast majority of people I haven't had the fortune of extreme wealth allowing me to own all those headphones, sources and amps at the same time, nor the audio memory to be able to compare say 10-20 headphones over a year with the exact same source and being able to remember exactly where they stand against each other in all those categories. Now if I were to make a choice by any other way, i.e reading reviews and impressions by others, and being pedantic like you are now, then I would have to conclude that almost every headphone not made by Bose (and actually probably some), costing above a couple of hundred have twinkling highs, sweet mids and fantastic bass, not to mention a sound stage like a world class opera house. In fact, I would have to conclude that all of them sound exactly the same!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif thats exactly why its hard to generalize about brands. the a700/a900 have a lot of bass, but a lot of A-T's popular phones (including their current flagship w5000, and especially their open phones) tend to be bass light

Aye, I figured the open models would be less heavy on the bass. Also I'm slowly starting to acclimatize back to headphones, particularly the much, much smaller soundstage compared to speakers and in general just having something clamped around your head. Do open phones actually feel open? Hahaha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amarphael /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should defienetly check out the higher AKG offers then, The K501&K601 are reportedly pretty mid-oriented than the more analytical K701 and will be a good match for your amp. If you prefer to stay with closed than you can always go up to A900, to me one of the most well-rounded and balanced cans i've heared at any price point with some very sweet mids AFAIR but they're likely (didn't comare ciritically) cosiderably less detalied than the K701 i had.

I'm definitely thinking about open, but I realise I need sound isolation quite often, so I'm leaving my options open.. What about the Denon D2000?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or maybe some amps are just bright. The veil totally exists on 600/650 IMHO partly due to rolled off highs and also fairly low detail levels compared to headphones I like atm which results in everything sounded blanketed. Regarding people saying "its just too general", it's not too general, people are getting to specific and some brands completely have a house sound (eg. Grado has always been fairly punchy). I'd love to give my impressions of my encounters with particular brands but I am afraid people will start QQing. For the record, you are right regarding your ATH-AXXX being slightly bassy through a MKIII. Depending on your tube setup (and gain setup) the MKIII is tipped towards bass/mids moreso than highs, and closed ATH tend to have a slightly forward bass response but still have slightly coloured mids.

Aye, I haven't been browsing the forums for years but back then I distinctively recall very well-written, detailed reviews using such phrases like 'the signature Grado sound' and 'Sennheiser veil lifting' (obviously not verbatim, I'm no computer).

Anyway, overall I think I'm getting used to the mids, but I can't foresee living with that bass, which I'm starting to think is why I stopped using my GL+A700 setup altogether. Like the highs of the MS1s, the detail in the range is fantastic, but after half an hour or so the fatigue puts me off music for the rest of the day.

Good lord does Modern Warfare 2 sound orgasmic with them though.

 

[Palpatine]

Skullcandies. - slow, overbearing, flatulent- like listening to a lengthy lower register fart through a wet paper bag. Dull listless highs and mids, as recessed as Travolta's chin dimple.

 

[Valens7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palpatine /img/forum/go_quote.gif Skullcandies. - slow, overbearing, flatulent- like listening to a lengthy lower register fart through a wet paper bag. Dull listless highs and mids, as recessed as Travolta's chin dimple.

That made me laugh! Well put.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmmtn4aj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Aye, I haven't been browsing the forums for years but back then I distinctively recall very well-written, detailed reviews using such phrases like 'the signature Grado sound' and 'Sennheiser veil lifting' (obviously not verbatim, I'm no computer). Anyway, overall I think I'm getting used to the mids, but I can't foresee living with that bass, which I'm starting to think is why I stopped using my GL+A700 setup altogether. Like the highs of the MS1s, the detail in the range is fantastic, but after half an hour or so the fatigue puts me off music for the rest of the day.

Do you have your MKIII set to the lowest gain? I find it gets slightly more neutral when you swap it to 3 (switches are underneath the amp, bright red if I recall correctly). May help a little, but I too find that the bass is a little bit much for me from A500/700.

FWIW:
Etymotic: Fast/hyperdetailed/neutral/analytical (by far the most consistent house sound IMO)
Beyerdynamic: I find beyerdynamic to be either tipped heavily into the fun side of things (770, 990, 531) or heavily into the detailed side (880, 831) but they almost universally all have the "beyer bass" (slow, textured rather than tight and crisp like etymotic or punchy like grado). I find that a lot of beyers have a recessed midrange, could just be my ears though.
Sennheiser: "Relaxed". Sennheiser never seems to produce in your face headphones, although bass quantity varies wildly and IMHO their bassier products are poor.

 

[AmanGeorge]

I'm totally cool with the OP's question. Obviously there is a lot of variation between models, but if you don't think that most companies have a house sound that is reflected in many of their headphones, you're... well, wrong.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif obviously, every manufacturer has models that vary greatly in sound ...but my general impression based on what ive heard is: AKG - fast, neutral, analytical/detailed (except k601 which sounded slightly warm to me). dj models are obviously different too Beyer - varies wildly, but id say most of their phones are forward sounding with sharp highs. leaning toward bright (except for dt770 pro 80/250) Senn - warm, musical. slightly bassy, except for the hd800 which was pretty neutral to me grado - bright, aggressive mids. i dont think they have recessed bass, it just seems that way on some models because of the mids/highs. exception is the gs1000, which felt more laid back in the mids (but had sharp highs to my ears). ultrasone - bassy, smooth sound sony - varies wildly, but id say most of their phones sound analytical (except maybe r10/qualia/etc. which ive never heard). xb300-xb700s are exceptions denon - bassy, punchy sound. audiotechnica - bass-light (a few exceptions though, ie L3000/m50), forward midrange

This is awesome, and pretty spot on from what I've heard. I also love that you took the time to call out where there are excepetions - this should be exactly what the OP is looking for (and a useful list).

Two quick things I would say from my limited exposure to two of the brands - Ultrasones are also pretty fast, with a fairly prominent treble. Audiotechnica, in addition to the forward midrange, has a sparkly (but not harsh) treble (at least this has been the case in the two closed woody models I've heard).

 

[Armaegis]

I don't see any harm in the question, just as long as the responses are from people's own experiences and not parroting what they've heard others say.