[freedomflyer]

Hi everyone, I've enjoyed this forum for some time and I enjoy the help and discussion that goes on here. I consider myself to be a good forum-er and hail from a programming/technical background and so I naturally enjoy these type of things. That being said, I searched google and head-fi and wasn't able to find a definitive guide to the basic, primary possibilities and setups of a computer and earphone system, so I'll ask here.

Basically, I am purchasing some UE Super.Fi 5 Pro's, and I want them to sound good. Although they should sound pretty dern good (to my untrained ear that uses semi-nice Maximo iMetal earphones), I talked with a friend that suggested I get what he called an in-line EQ and/or in-line conditioner. Now, I am looking for top-notch high quality sound, but I am not going to be a fanatic about it. I want something that will at least do the earphones justice, but something that is really just cheap and works, however simple.

It would really help to suggest a couple of these devices and also name a few very basic components in a typical computer+earphone setup, as well as possibly a typical iPod+earphone setup.

Thank you for your help in advance, I think once I get the basics down I can do more advanced research on my own.

 

[krmathis]

Hi, and welcome to Head-Fi!

The primary components are as follows:
* Computer (with audio files and playback software).
* DAC (either built in or external).
* Amplifier (either built in or external).
* Ear-/Headphone.
* Cables.

 

[freedomflyer]

Thank you for your fast and clear reply krmathis! Your help is greatly appreciated.

One of the big questions I have, from here, is the reason why an amplifier is needed. It seems that a DAC is for turning the sound from a digital signal to an analog signal (and the reason for that is because the earphones themselves need an analog signal?) and that is built into most audio playback devices, but does a lot of times suffer with a stock equipment (i.e., my HP laptop). And so I think I understand that concept. But why the amplifier? I get plenty loud sound out of my earphones. Is it because the DAC makes the signal a little weaker and the amplifier is needed to do this?
Also, I understand that to be a true audiophile I'm not going to just have the earphones themselves without some other equipment such as these, but would you recommend that I pick up a pair of nice earphones and use my iPod, Laptop, and work computer to listen to my music and then when I have the money, shell out for the other good equipment?
It's a few questions, I know, but I really think I can get started once I know the simple things.
Thank you, once again, for your help!

 

[krmathis]

Just pleased to help out!
An amplifier is needed because the line level are most often incapable of driving the 'phone directly. Hence the signal need to be amplified. The amplifier can be built into the computer, like the one built into any sound card. It don't have to be an external unit.

To be a little bit more specific.
Audio files store on a computer are digital, while your 'phones and ears only accept analog audio. Hence the digital need to be converted into analog, by the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter). The resulting analog signal are then sent trough an amplifier, before reaching the 'phone. The sound card in your computer contain both a DAC and an amplifier, leading to the headphone out jack. To take it up to the next level its common to use an external DAC and amplifier (bypassing the sound card).
Clearer now?

 

[freedomflyer]

It couldn't be any more clear. So basically, unless your computer as some a nice DAC and Amplifier in it, most people will just user their own? Say I'm using an awesome gaming rig, I'd probably be able to use the built in sound card because it's pretty nice, eh?
That makes much more sense, though, because without the amplifier the converted signal would be such a tiny, tiny number that it wouldn't be able to be audible.
Now, here is my deal. I understand that all of this hardware isn't NECESSARY, but very much preferred. However, I am in a lot of places at a lot of times that are not necessarily my computer, say, at work, school, home, iPod, family and friends houses. What would you suggest besides a dedicated system that I could use with my earphones to enable me to take my earphones with me and be able use any 3.5mm jack and have the sound sound okay? I understand that a dedicated system of components is better, but for me I'm looking for something that might comprimise sound quality a little, but help me on portability and the option of taking my earphones and plugging them into, say, a neighbors computer.

Does that make any sense at all? Happy New Year to you, as well!

 

[krmathis]

I think I understand.
You want something that give you flexibility when moving around, and also allowing you to hook up to a friends computer when wanted. Right?

Then you may want to look into a portable DAC/amplifier. Example the iBasso D2 Boa -> iBasso
It an external DAC and amplifier in one unit, hooking up to a computer using USB, bypassing the built in sound card, and output to the earphones. It can also be used portable with an iPod or similar, feed though its line in jack.

 

[freedomflyer]

(edit: I don't have an iPod, so i can't use the line-out on the iPod)

That makes sense. So you can either:

1) Hook up the iBasso to the usb-out on a computer, and then plug your headphones into iBasso

-or-

2) Hook a cable from iPod 3.5mm jack to iBasso line-in then to heaphones.

I am assuming that the USB is higher quality, and that the 3.5mm option is just if you cannot use usb but still want better sound? I'd need a driver in the host computer if I used usb, would I not?
This is a pretty expensive option, as I am just starting out. One of my last questions is I have seen reviews all over the place of the UE Super.Fi Pro 5's that I am looking at getting, and many of them just plugged them into their iPod, etc... and were still blown away by the sound compared to $50-$100 earphones. So, until I have the $$$ for an iBasso (or is there something cheaper? I'm not looking for the HIGHEST quality), would you think that just nakedly using the Super.Fi's will still give me fairly top-notch performance, but by no means top end?
I'm not being impatient, I just think that I might as well by the earphones right now, enjoy the music, and then enjoy it MORE when I have more money, does that make sense?
Your input would help on this matter, although it looks as if you're a pretty dedicated audiophile (and I understand how you want me to have nice components), hopefully you understand my situation.
I can't thank you enough!

 

[Maxvla]

The UEs are fine without a dac/amp (most IEMs are), but just understand the potential sound can be much better. It really comes down to how much you care about the quality of sound versus your budget situation.

 

[freedomflyer]

Thanks for the comment, Maxvla. I think I understand that concept, especially in this type of industry where quality is so readily identified. As I mentioned previously, I'm in the software development industry, and so I understand math and numbers well, and it's hard when there are no quantitative measurements for me to base my assumptions on.
When you say that the UE's are "fine" are we talking like just pushover/they'll WORK, or are we talking about a person that likes their music nice being able to sit down and actually still enjoy the music?
If you were to rate (and I do understand that this is PURELY subjective and due to personal preference) the experience with and without the DAC/Amp configuration on a 0-100 scale, where the DAC/AMP combo is 100, would the plain earphones rate at 25 or 85? I'm just wanting kind of ballpark figures here. One thing that I have noticed, with just about every product ever made is that as one increases cost, there are higher returns, but those returns get smaller and smaller as more money is spent. IT would really help me to give an honest opinion on the sound I'd be getting.

Whoa, maybe that was too long of a deluge to even pay attention to, maybe not! We shall see! THANK YOU!

 

[krmathis]

So many questions!

And each time I/we answer some, even more arise...

* Both USB and analog input give you flexibility. Just like you wanted.

* Using USB bypass the built in sound card, and of course depending on the sound card, may well improve the sound quality. Drivers are needed, but I think such are included in modern operating systems.

* The Super.Fi Pro 5 can be driven straight from an iPod's, etc. headphone out.
But as most other 'phones they will benefit (scale) as you upgrade the source and amplification. No necessity though, of course.

* You will have a hard time finding a unit as flexible as the iBasso D2 (DAC/amp) for less $$.


I understand your situation. No problem...
It just sometimes takes a while to understand what the other part are looking for. Especially since this thread has evolved.

Take care!

 

[Maxvla]

As a point of reference, I use my IEMs straight from my Zune and it has been enjoyable.

IEMs are very easily driven phones. The benefit from amping is small, but noticeable. I'd rate unamped IEMs somewhere around 70-80 versus being amped. Honestly I didn't feel like carrying around more than the Zune so I never bought a portable amp/dac. I've used my QJays through my LDMKIII stationary amp and while the quality is increased, I really don't think I would hear the difference on the go. Now if you are talking about transportable, where you pick up your stuff go somewhere else stationary set it all up, then maybe an inexpensive amp like a Fiio could be useful.

 

[freedomflyer]

Okay, krmathis, I get the point: you hate me!

One thing that is puzzling me is that if it's called a "Digital to Analog Converter" then how could I possibly plug the iBasso into an analog input and still get any use out of the iBasso? I mean, as you said earlier, the sound from the iPod's headphone jack, for example, is an analog output, and the amplification/signal converting has already been done. I'm guessing that if you connect your iPod to it's dock and use the line out, that is digital?

Also, (this is so bad, all the questions...I'm just trying to dig in for a couple hours so I can have a base to ask more questions and serach out more answer) my brother owns a Dell XPS m1530 laptop that has an HDMI-out and seems to have quite the decent sound card, it is a good gaming rig. Would there be a noticeable difference if I plugged my earphones into his computer, compared to my $500 HP laptop with a stock sound card? It should affect the sound, because the amp/dac is of higher quality, but if I am correct this will NOT affect the "background noise"/"buzzing" coming from the computer because that has to do with CD/HDD/Power problems.
But the actual QUALITY of the output sound is dependent on what MAIN factors of the dac/amp? The algorithms are probably the same across the board, so quality build components are what matter most?

Ick, I feel kind of guilty asking all of these questions, I'll stop soon --- after I figure out the meaning of life and also the missing link...good?

 

[freedomflyer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla /img/forum/go_quote.gif As a point of reference, I use my IEMs straight from my Zune and it has been enjoyable. IEMs are very easily driven phones. The benefit from amping is small, but noticeable. I'd rate unamped IEMs somewhere around 70-80 versus being amped. Honestly I didn't feel like carrying around more than the Zune so I never bought a portable amp/dac. I've used my QJays through my LDMKIII stationary amp and while the quality is increased, I really don't think I would hear the difference on the go. Now if you are talking about transportable, where you pick up your stuff go somewhere else stationary set it all up, then maybe an inexpensive amp like a Fiio could be useful.

But I'd need a DAC, too, right? I mean --- just plugging an amp in line between iPod and Earphones would just make the sound louder, and the in-built amp is plenty loud in the iPod already, right?

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedomflyer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, krmathis, I get the point: you hate me!

Not at all!
I am in a happy mood, as always.

When you use the analog input of the iBasso, you will use the source's DAC (iPod, computer, ...) instead of the one built into the iBasso. The line-out of the iPod is analog, not digital. USB on the other hand is digital, and use the DAC built into the iBasso.
Confusing?

Head-Fi is the meaning of life.

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedomflyer /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I'd need a DAC, too, right? I mean --- just plugging an amp in line between iPod and Earphones would just make the sound louder, and the in-built amp is plenty loud in the iPod already, right?

Incorrect. An amplifier doesn't just make it louder, it makes the signal stronger. Think FM radio at the edge of reception versus in town. A DAC can help because it takes the DAC process away from the bundled cheap sound card and puts it on a purpose built external DAC with parts the onboard could only dream of. The most glaring benefits of a DAC are reduced noise floor and signal clarity. Depending on the model of DAC there are many other options. A DAC is very optional, but many of the portable amplifiers are built with DAC combined so usually it's the best bang for the buck to get a dual purpose. I only mentioned the Fiio amps because they are ridiculously cheap, like $20.