What are contenders for best tube headphone amps today? MUST BE FAST!!!!
Aug 15, 2014 at 10:35 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

Caesar2010

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I listened to top of the line Woo models recently. They were slow as molasses, completely lacking PRAT even with Beyer T1's.  Bored me to death.  
 
What are the best and fastest tube headphone amps today?  
 
Aug 16, 2014 at 1:29 AM Post #3 of 14
PRAT? 
basshead.gif
 Electrons flow at a speed not discernible by human ears. There are obviously devices that can measure it, but the human brain isn't capable. You're fooling yourself.
 
Aug 16, 2014 at 6:46 PM Post #7 of 14
  I listened to top of the line Woo models recently. They were slow as molasses, completely lacking PRAT even with Beyer T1's.  Bored me to death.  
 
What are the best and fastest tube headphone amps today?  

 
Did you hear the WA234 MONO? I am seriously considering buying it...
 
HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 which is not quite out yet as far as I know may also be a contender.

 
The GS-X mk2 has been out for a good while now.
 
Aug 16, 2014 at 7:50 PM Post #8 of 14
   
Did you hear the WA234 MONO? I am seriously considering buying it...
 
 
The GS-X mk2 has been out for a good while now.


I was referring to the 2014 version.  I should mention that it is not a tube amp.
 
Aug 17, 2014 at 7:28 PM Post #9 of 14
   
Did you hear the WA234 MONO? I am seriously considering buying it...
 
 
The GS-X mk2 has been out for a good while now.

No, I listened to the 3 models below that, and it was not my cup of tea.  Now, of course, I am making an assumption that the big mono-blocks would have the same sonic signature as their "cheaper" amps, but they are too big anyways, and I already have 2 full-out-assualt 2 channel systems with monster tube amps, huge class a amps, that I don't need 2 more large amps.
 
 
Anyways, don't let my taste dissuade you.  If you really like it, pull the trigger.  You only live once.
 
Aug 17, 2014 at 7:40 PM Post #10 of 14
  My suggestions:
 
Apex Teton
Apex Pinnacle
Eddie Current 4-45
 
I also do not like Woo amps, a statement that borders on blasphemy around here.

Thank you for the suggestions.  
 
Yes, I agree.  For several reasons people think that if you don't share their taste, it's like calling their babies or children butt ugly.  But individual tastes differ, and there is no point arguing about tastes.  And there is a lot of group-think going on. It's just human nature.  People get pleasure about talking about other popular brands, which may be inferior to many of the obscure brands.  Lady Gaga can play to a stadium full of people, but I will take Debbie Davies in a room of 20-30 people anytime. 
 
Additionally, many people don't understand that designers voice their gear to sound a certain way- either because they like it that way, they aren't good enough to do it another way, trying to hit a certain target market, etc...  My personal reference is live music, and I don't care to get detail for the sake of detail that many gear manufacturers shoot for.  Any gear that is analytic makes me want to shut it off instead of getting lost in the music so I can find bliss.  
 
And I feel about the top of the line Sennheiser models the same way I feel about Woo amps.  Ooops!  I might get banned now!
 
Aug 19, 2014 at 5:30 PM Post #11 of 14
Buy a Pinnacle; don't even think twice. And Pete (and Todd) are great to deal with, even long after the sale.
I used the T1 happily for years so I can recommend the combo highly.
 
Aug 19, 2014 at 5:57 PM Post #12 of 14
Considering you have soundlabs, I'd scrap the T1 and get a 009 and TOTL amp for it.  Also a stat that can kick.  Even if you want to stay with conventional models, I would highly consider a different model than the T1 before upgrading to a top amp (T1 is not on the level of most of the current crop of flagships, especially if you're considering PRAT.)  If you insist on using the T1, keep in mind its funky impedance/frequency curve - you may get better kick with an integrated with a 120 or 600 ohm out that's using a splitter or opamp for headphone drive simply because of the higher output impedance.
 
For tube amps, Pete Millett's offerrings have pretty good pace/speed, as do some of the newer EC models (though not to quite the same degree as Apex.)  Woo/DNA are definitely mushier.  The Apex Teton indeed sounds interesting for your T1, and TTVJ may even offer a loaner or trial period.
 
Aug 19, 2014 at 7:58 PM Post #13 of 14
I realize you need to have the capable hardware, but doesn’t PRAT have a lot to do with the recording? For example, I think the Doors ‘Love Her Madly’ is probably the best example of PRAT I’ve heard so far, Talking Heads ‘Take Me To The River’ is another good one, and Paul Simon’s ‘So Beautiful or So What’ (using XF2-OO tubes). While listening to these songs I can’t multitask – they won’t let me.  As a point of reference, I don’t consider Eagles ‘Hotel California’ to have exceptional PRAT, although it’s a decent recording (maybe average PRAT?).  On the other hand, there’s a ton of recordings that have very little PRAT (could even be well recorded, but there’s no wow factor). So if someone listens to one of these recording, I’m sure they could get the wrong impression.  OP didn’t say what he was listening to, so to me there’s no point of reference.  Or am I wrong, are there HP systems that bring PRAT to every single recording no matter how bad it is? Is it possible OP just listened to a recording(s) with bad PRAT.
 
Aug 20, 2014 at 8:27 AM Post #14 of 14
My experience so far is that each component affects PRaT.  I found that a recent upgrade to my source really reduced the "blurriness" of the attack and finish of notes.  A track that I have been using to compare upgrades is John William's Jurrasic Park 20th Anniversary edition - Journey to the Island.  Near the begining of the track there are some double basses that are plucked and I guess due to their nature and the recording setup (?) they can sound a mushy on some rigs.  As I upgraded different components I found that they slowly became more taut and distinct, but more importantly they sounded more "accurate" and in time with music.  With my previous rig that I honestly thought that they were playing slightly out of time, but now they have a clear and driving quality you would expect from world-class bassists.  This equally applies to other music in my collection, particularly percussive instruments like pianos where the initial attack is clearer and the finish to a key strike is more precise.  I feel that this reduction in blurriness gives tracks better PRaT.
 
Long story short:  The amp will affect PRaT, but so will the DAC, headphone, source and everything in-between (IMO).
 

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