[mattigol]

Much discussions here over highend cans and amps revolve around properties that a decent speaker system + adequate listening room always have - soundstage and impact.

I am in the process of downgrading my headphone rig and will settle with something that's both transportable and reasonably priced.

 

[krmathis]

I prefer speakers, but will stay with headpeakers/headphones.
Cause I don't have a suitable room, with the correct acoustics and damping. Neither do I want to spend around $30-40K on equipment to get comparable sound quality.

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattigol Much discussions here over highend cans and amps revolve around properties that a decent speaker system + adequate listening room always have - soundstage and impact.

Especially the impact on my neighbors is always assured.

I agree that soundstage and macrodynamics are the strong points of speakers.

 

[Carl]

I find with proper implementation of Dolby Headphone the sounstaging advantages of speakers are reduced significantly.

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis I prefer speakers, but will stay with headpeakers/headphones. Cause I don't have a suitable room, with the correct acoustics and damping. Neither do I want to spend around $30-40K on equipment to get comparable sound quality.

I've read some vastly exaggerated price quotes regarding speaker audio, this is only one example.
I've recently listened to a very competitive speaker rig.
DIY-speakers:$1500
Amp : $1000
Room treatment:$1000 for absorbers and DIY bass traps
Digital EQ for fine tuning the FR :$300
Source: $950
Miscellanous:Microphone for measuring purposes, software, DIY cables, tools for the woodworking: about $600
Combined it's less than $5500 and easily on the list of the best speaker audio I've heard so far, regardless of price.
$5500 is not much more than my most expensive headphone rig I've owned last year.My former Omega II/Rudistor Egmont/Aqvox DAC/cables rig retailed for more than $5000,too.
Frankly, at this price level there's no bang-for-the-buck advantage for headphone audio anymore.

 

[krmathis]

cosmopragma. I fail to see how $1500 DIY speakers can compare to a $4000 headpeaker (Stax SR-007), and how a $1000 amplifier can compare to a $3000 tube amplifier (Stax SRM-007t).

I have looked into electrostatic speakers with matching active subwoofer, tube amplifier(s), and cables (Final speakers and Cary amplifiers). Which easily make $25.000 or more.
First at that level I get the micro-dynamics, space and controlled sound I get from a Stax Omega II setup.

I don't count the cost of the source, since a comparable amount of money would be needed for both setups.


Edit:
As you understand, the amount of money you have to spend to match your headphone set up really depends on the quality/cost of your headphone set up.

 

[ken36]

I have a ton of money in speakers, but I only listen to music on headphones. Now if I could figure out how a squeezebox 3 works I might think about using my itunes library, in my small office, while my big system is in the living room. In fact maybe it is time to start a thread.

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis cosmopragma. I fail to see how $1500 DIY speakers can compare to a $4000 headpeaker (Stax SR-007), and how a $1000 amplifier can compare to a $3000 tube amplifier (Stax SRM-007t).

Many head-fiers tend to avoid the totally overblown european prices and import Stax gear themselfes.
The Omegas did cost me ~$1800, and the Rudistor (better than the SRM-007T IME) retails for about the same equipped with some nice matched NOS tubes.Regarding amps there's much more competition in the speaker amp camp and there are some bargains out there not more expensive than a very good headphone amp.The speaker amp was this one.Retails for 1600 Euros in Germany (list price), but my buddy got it for $1000 via pricejapan.Really a nice amp.It won't drive 82 dB speakers though sufficiently, but the speakers are 89 dB and therefor there's plenty of headroom.
Regarding the costs both rigs are in the same league. Quote:

First at that level I get the micro-dynamics, space and controlled sound I get from a Stax Omega II setup.

Electrostatic headphones are hard to beat as far as microdynamics are concerned, but the speaker rig wasn't shabby in this regard either.
"Space"? Naturally the speaker soundstage was more natural in it's dimensions and not warped, and imaging precision was on par (to my own surprise).
The sound of the Omega rig is surely better controlled, but that is counterbalanced by visceral bass, better macrodynamics and the perception of "punch".
We are obviously comparing apples to oranges here, but to my ears both rigs were different but equally enjoyable at the same price point.
Frankly, I would probably prefer the speaker rig overall, but my spouse and my neighbours wouldn't .........

Edit: I've just found a link for the speakers (it's in german though).Really exceptional for the modest price.

 

[stefancolson]

A great speaker rig can actually provide a more enveloping soundstage/listening experience than can any set of headphones I've heard. Headphones are convenient and can sound fantastic at a low price point, but once you start talking about adding expensive amps, dacs, re-cables, some of the pricier headphones, etc, the price-performance advantage is shattered. For example, K1000s sound great, but I can think of quite a few sets of speakers that sound better for $1000.

The disadvantages to speakers are the room/placement considerations, their size, and the fact that everyone can hear them (even the neihbors if you live in an apartment).

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma Many head-fiers tend to avoid the totally overblown european prices and import Stax gear themselfes. The Omegas did cost me ~$1800, and the Rudistor (better than the SRM-007T IME) retails for about the same equipped with some nice matched NOS tubes.

I am fully aware of that, since the European prices are outrageous.
But I got a deal that made it cheaper for me to buy through official channels than importing from Japan or US myself. So I went for it...

Quote:

We are obviously comparing apples to oranges here, but to my ears both rigs were different but equally enjoyable at the same price point.

We sure do!
But if I go from headphones to speaker I don't want to degrade the sound quality. I would keep it at the same level, or better.

I am sure the system you refer to sound good. But for me it can't replace my current system.


Take care!

 

[mulveling]

For me, headphones are not a compromise. However, my budget and room compromise what my speakers are capable of

Even if I had a great room, the L3000 with a good tube amp (closely followed by the HP2) remains one of the finest music enjoyment tools I've yet laid ears on.

I realize some people just can't enjoy headphones as much as speakers (though it seems some of the headphone bashers haven't given many of the better headphones a try) - I'm most definitely not one of them. I <3 headphones; that's why I spend so much time here!

 

[purk]

I will go with speaker if you have a good room. Speaker is more natural and difficult to beat. For now, my L3000 and SDS is more than sufficient for me.

 

[vpivinylspinner]

I personally listen to speakers about 98% of the time and headphones 2%. I really like the headphones but they just fall short in so many ways compared to a good speaker set up. Maybe if I had an Orpheus or Balanced R10s out of a SDS-XLR I would listen to headphones more but I have not decided to jump off that cliff as of yet.

 

[felixkrull6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefancolson A great speaker rig can actually provide a more enveloping soundstage/listening experience than can any set of headphones I've heard. Headphones are convenient and can sound fantastic at a low price point, but once you start talking about adding expensive amps, dacs, re-cables, some of the pricier headphones, etc, the price-performance advantage is shattered. For example, K1000s sound great, but I can think of quite a few sets of speakers that sound better for $1000. The disadvantages to speakers are the room/placement considerations, their size, and the fact that everyone can hear them (even the neihbors if you live in an apartment).

I totally agree with this.

This is no way headphone bashing as I wouldn't be on this site and spent all the money I have on headphones if I disliked them but speakers will always be my favorite.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_cs at a price point i tinhk is what hes trying to get across. in that a 5k HP setup is going to sound better than a 5k speaker setup.

why are you so sure about that? with everything so closely miked these days, don't you think speaker rig is the "way it is meant to be heard"