[ubercaffeinated]

Uber,

Unfortunately, not having a flange on the W60 is an omission in my opinion. When I removed the W60 a couple of times (to be honest, it was an unusual occurrence) the Star Tip remained in my ear. While I sympathize with Spyro and a flange damaging a tip that is in my opinion far better than having to take tweezers and extracting a tip from my ear canal.

I do agree that sound is far more important so I do not want to derail this thread.

Please keep in mind while I prefer the 846, I truly enjoyed the W60 and think it is a well tuned, polished sounding IEM.

 
And that is surprising and unfortunate that you've had the tip remain in your ear like that! If I ever have something like that happen to me, I will immediately post pictures and also contact Westone. I imagine it would take significant force to cause that to happen, so the suction of your seal must have been pretty strong.

 

[spook76]

And that is surprising and unfortunate that you've had the tip remain in your ear like that! If I ever have something like that happen to me, I will immediately post pictures and also contact Westone. I imagine it would take significant force to cause that to happen, so the suction of your seal must have been pretty strong.

Using the blue silicone Star Tips on my 846 and the black Star Tips on the W60 I have/had a great seal and yes the suction is strong.

Actually, I have always thanked Spyro for suggesting the Star Tips for any 2.5mm nozzle in a thread he started late in 2012. http://www.head-fi.org/t/636138/will-this-be-called-the-westone-epic-tip/0_20

They are without question for me the most comfortable easy to use tips I have ever used.

 

[milford30]

   
And that is surprising and unfortunate that you've had the tip remain in your ear like that! If I ever have something like that happen to me, I will immediately post pictures and also contact Westone. I imagine it would take significant force to cause that to happen, so the suction of your seal must have been pretty strong.

 
No the star tips expand over time, this never happened with any other tips I tried. I've gone through at least 5 pairs of star tips (brought at different times and locations/vendors) with my w4r.

 

[ubercaffeinated]

   
No the star tips expand over time, this never happened with any other tips I tried. I've gone through at least 5 pairs of star tips (brought at different times and locations/vendors) with my w4r.

 
I've gone through maybe 3 or 4 pairs of the red star tips total on my W4, W4R and former UM3X RC, and I have never experienced them expanding in my ear. The star tips are made of medical grade silicone, and can't expand with normal body temperature. It is literally a hollow silicone plug. The same kind of silicone that is used for cooking utensils, gaskets, and medical implants. You can probably put it on a fry pan, and watch nothing happen to it. More likely, it is body temperature making the silicone more pliant with the addition of skin oil and/or cerumen that is assisting the formation of a really strong seal and thus a vacuum.

 

[Spyro]

   
Westone IEMs have never had a flared flange tip on the nozzle stem to help hold the tip in place - it's never needed something like that as tips do not randomly slide off. And having had owned 4 Westone IEMs to date, I can safely say, none of them had an issue with tips coming off too easily due to lack of a flare on the nozzle end. I think the majority of people who own any Westone IEMs can attest to the same, barring any inter-user differences accounting for hygiene or extra oily skin.
 
And you keep bringing up build quality like it's an issue with the W60 - but it's not. Let's remind everyone that you are comparing the build quality to the 846. These are TOTL IEMs. Neither the 846 nor the W60 are going to survive being in a fire, being run over by a car, being eaten by a dog, going through the washer and dryer, etc etc. Both the 846 and the W60 are going to survive the same conditions they are going to be used in - responsible, adult owned usage. These things should be going from case to ear canals, and then back to case - every time. I am not going to swing the W60 around like some medieval flail, and neither should you with the SE846.
 
I can't tell you what the 846 feels like in my hands yet, but the W60 isn't some fragile porcelain doll. Never have I ever felt that the W60 would snap or break in between my fingers. The shells don't creak, and the nozzle doesn't bend with the application of pressure to change tips. The MMCX connections are solid. As I've mentioned previously, the W60 feels more solid than the W4 did to me - the build quality of the shell is closer to the UM series, and the shells on those bad boys are hand finished in the US. The cable doesn't have that annoying memory wire on it, and has zero microphonics to mention.
 
 

Outstanding post Uber.  Well said!
 
The W60 shells are heavier probably due to 6 drivers versus  just a few.  Comfort is unparalleled.  Could leave them in my ears around the clock.   As I explore more of my music, I'm enjoying stuff that I haven't really touched for years (Keiko Matsui) simply because it is recorded well and sounds fantastic on these.   I can't send these back.  I can't go back listening to any other IEM's.  I've become completely spoiled overnight.

 

[M Coupe]

In my opinion the whole dialogue about build quality has to do with individual expectations around what 1k should get you. I agree that neither would survive being stepped on, dogs, pack of wolves, or one hungry hippo.  That being said, I kept mine past the return date because I like the sound.  If it came to build quality vs. the 846, they would have gone back.  
 
In the next few days, I hope to have my balanced copper litz.  I have a strong gut feeling this will complete the sound I am looking for from the W60. If I am wrong, so be it. I will definitely let everyone know...the hungry hippos too.
 
 
My lamenting of Westones poor marketing for a very good IEM remains.  9 pages this long after a product launch is abysmal.  If they are doing any market research, I hope they read this.  I will stop...Oh well, those few of us that have heard these know what a good IEM this is.
 

 

[Spyro]

Perhaps Westone just has too many offerings in that "over $300 category"  to cost effectively market all of them?  With Shure its basically SE535 or SE846.

 

[milford30]

   
I've gone through maybe 3 or 4 pairs of the red star tips total on my W4, W4R and former UM3X RC, and I have never experienced them expanding in my ear. The star tips are made of medical grade silicone, and can't expand with normal body temperature. It is literally a hollow silicone plug. The same kind of silicone that is used for cooking utensils, gaskets, and medical implants. You can probably put it on a fry pan, and watch nothing happen to it. More likely, it is body temperature making the silicone more pliant with the addition of skin oil and/or cerumen that is assisting the formation of a really strong seal and thus a vacuum.

 
That is the experience of various people here, stick your tips on a larger diameter nozzle for a week or so and see what happens. Heat alone may not case the tube around the nozzle to expand, but together with stress, it is bound to expand. Medical grade silicone is strong as a chunk of silicone, the strength depends upon the thickness of the tube in this case. The tips can easily be washed hence the skin oil argument does not work.
 
Here is a picture of a tip that has been used for months and one that's brand new, the diameter difference is much more obvious in real life.
 

 

 

[spook76]

I guess the SRH1440 and SRH1840 headphones do not count nor the multitude of microphones, wireless and personal monitor systems, mixers and audio conference systems and all over $300 made by Shure.

 

[truckdriver]

I'm sure it didn't help the W60 that the W50 came out first and was (pretty much) panned in the W50/W60 thread. It also doesn't help to be late to the $1000 universal IEM lineup.

 

[LFC_SL]

I guess the SRH1440 and SRH1840 headphones do not count nor the multitude of microphones, wireless and personal monitor systems, mixers and audio conference systems and all over $300 made by Shure.

Posts like this do not progress. The post was valid and it would be equally incongruous to cite Westone hearing aids from the other side of the fence.

I don't think it's [just] a question of marketing. From my own internet reading ppl who compare side-by-side seem to buy the SE846. Then you have retailers who sell both ranking the SE846 higher. Would doubt the margins are a factor and leading to SE846 favouritism. A casual reader without the opportunity to demo are going to side with the perceived safer blind bet.

 

[spook76]

Posts like this do not progress. The post was valid and it would be equally incongruous to cite Westone hearing aids from the other side of the fence.

I don't think it's [just] a question of marketing. From my own internet reading ppl who compare side-by-side seem to buy the SE846. Then you have retailers who sell both ranking the SE846 higher. Would doubt the margins are a factor and leading to SE846 favouritism. A casual reader without the opportunity to demo are going to side with the perceived safer blind bet.

I have may have overstated my case but the point remains in a district comparison Shure sells four IEMs/headphones priced over $300 not just the 535 and 846.

 

[LFC_SL]

I don't think W60 owners should focus that much on the SE846 anyway. Both are competing with the mighty Sennheiser on a mass market level. For anyone bothered to do reading then a site like this will be overwhelming. Personal audio keeps getting bigger year on year. The Asian crowd of course spoilt for choice with local manufacturers

 

[Spyro]

I guess the SRH1440 and SRH1840 headphones do not count nor the multitude of microphones, wireless and personal monitor systems, mixers and audio conference systems and all over $300 made by Shure.

 
No, they don't count.  It's a whole different division.  Shure's IEM's represent about 10-15% of their total sales.  It's almost a side business.  

 

[spook76]

No, they don't count.  It's a whole different division.  Shure's IEM's represent about 10-15% of their total sales.  It's almost a side business.  

Honestly that is very interesting. Not that I doubt your numbers but how do you know? To my knowledge, Shure is a privately held company and does not make its financials public.

Also, if IEMs are a side business of Shure as you state would that not weaken the point you were making because they would not have the full company support as I assume the W60 has from Westone.