[tstarn06]

Disagree, and leave it at that. So far, 3 people agree that the W3s outperform the Turbines by a decent margin, one doesn't. I got the Turbines for free and still didn't feel compelled to keep them when stacked up against the W3s or the IE8s. They are a nice value at $100 in my view, but not in the same league as the W3s assuming you heard the W3s at their ultimate best (no need for a long discourse on that entire issue). I think I do (hear them at their best), hence my views on the gap between the W3s and the Turbines. I also sold my IE8s, for some of the reasons you listed, plus they just were not as robust as the W3s in head to head listening tests, based on my preferences.

Right now, I have NO sibilance issues with the W3s, and their highs/treble are a step or two above the Turbines as I remember, since the Turbines had some artificial sounds on certain tracks when it came to treble in my view. Its in my review.

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif W4 = typo never fixed.

I thought it was a humorous reference to the W4 golf club thread. Funny stuff.

(This thread is doing the phantom page 2 thing. I think there's a bug in the web server code, most likely a difference in page counting between the code that shows the links and the code that builds the next page. Maybe make a function and call it from both places?)

 

[pdupiano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Disagree, and leave it at that. So far, 3 people agree that the W3s outperform the Turbines by a decent margin, one doesn't. I got the Turbines for free and still didn't feel compelled to keep them when stacked up against the W3s or the IE8s. They are a nice value at $100 in my view, but not in the same league as the W3s assuming you heard the W3s at their ultimate best (no need for a long discourse on that entire issue). I think I do (hear them at their best), hence my views on the gap between the W3s and the Turbines. I also sold my IE8s, for some of the reasons you listed, plus they just were not as robust as the W3s in head to head listening tests, based on my preferences. Right now, I have NO sibilance issues with the W3s, and their highs/treble are a step or two above the Turbines as I remember, since the Turbines had some artificial sounds on certain tracks when it came to treble in my view. Its in my review.

Well its certainly true that I didn't go along the lines to hear the W3's at the best, but I still don't think that the Turbines were too far off from the IE8's. And by extension shouldn't be too far off from the W3's (transitivity principle). The one thing I don't understand is, you knock down the Turbines because of their artificial sound, yet if I remember correctly, a lot of posters have begun to talk about the "fun/non-flat" response of the W3's (this is from the UM3X appreciation thread, so there could be a problem where people are knocking down the W3's to make the UM3X seem better etc..., but since those impressions regarding the W3's are from people who owned the W3's and were satisfied with them before the release of the UM3x, I would believe them unless of course you can prove them wrong). In other words, it seems that the W3's also produce a non-real sound or have some problems reproducing stuff accurately.

Since you also had the Turbines and IE8's, I'm wondering if you found a really big difference between the two. I hate to use numbers but it really felt like the Turbines were 90% of the IE8's The IE8's just notched out a win in terms of sound stage and a bigger more impacting bass (especially since you could increase it, but for crying out loud the lowest setting felt like I was next to a bass drum). But I guess in terms of Head-fi Numbers, 10% = Worlds apart. Since I've read elsewhere on these forums that the differences as you move up in gear gets down to 5% differences.

On a side note, yes I heard the W3's with their sibilance, but if I remember correctly if you reduce their sibilance (From the mod threads) you would also reduce their forwardness and it must have also affected their sound stage and other attributes. So if I praised the W3's for having a wide sound stage and great bass, this may not be the case after the mods since I find it hard to believe that the mod will ONLY affect the sibilance issue and not impact the others (its a tradeoff, take away and give to something else). And if that's the case, then perhaps in terms of highs:
W3>Turbines>IE8

but there might be a change in the other factors. I guess I need to borrow a pair to take a listen with the triple flange tip mod. So keep in mind that my impressions on the W3 are based on when I used them with comply tips/shure olives/silicone tips. Not with the modded tips.

 

[tstarn06]

Understand, but to me, the mini-problem I had with the Turbine highs wasn't really anything I hear with the W3s (when using the modded tri-flanges). I really can't explain it, but to me, the W3 sound sig is just what makes me happy and sounds just so much fuller and more dynamic (the sound, not the driver) than either the Turbines or the IE8s. And I think you are right, the Turbines were very close to the IE8s, though I did prefer the IE8s over the Turbines. In the end, when I tried A/B listening with the three phones, the W3s, call them colored or fun or whatever, just made me want to choose them over with of the dynamic driver phones, when comparing apples to apples (in terms of musical tracks/genres).

Also, when I used standard Complys or the grey soft flex tips (or most any other "short" tips) the W3 sibilance is like nails on the blackboard, and they also sound somewhat congested. As soon as I put the modded tri-flanges back on, ahhhh. Mind you, and there is nothing I can do otherwise, when I do use the tri-flange tips, I need to EQ the W3s with acoustic on my Touch, and a little tweaking on the highs and mids with the Sony and Clip (no EQ on the Zune). Otherwise, the highs are veiled and the W3s are somewhat dark. It doesn't bother me at all, and it sounds sublime. I figure the only way to really eliminate the EQ is to get the UM56 custom sleeves, but not right now, can't afford it.

Anyway, I didn't mean that the Turbines are always a problem on the high end, just now and then I thought I heard some unnatural, almost plasticky artifacts.

In the end, I just really found that the W3s were much more ear-pleasing, no other way to put it. I never pretend to be one of the analytical members, I just know what type of sound sig I like and the W3s have it over the Turbines (and IE8s/IE7s), which, while worthy IEMs, were not on the same level to me.

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as I'm concerned, the Turbines and the W3's are only worlds apart if the IE8 is completely outclassed by the W3's. Since this isn't the case (based on reviews, notably by n_maher, headphoneaddict, who place the IE8's below the W3's out of preference and gave the W3's a slight margin over the IE8's) I have to say that the Turbines are infact closer to the W3's as you may expect.

pdupiano-

As a former owner of the W3's, I preferred the IE8's over them. Of course I had sibilance issues with the W3's, but to my ears the IE8's mellowness was much more friendly with a wider variety of music genres, from jazz, to hard rock, to electronic/industrial music. The W3's just didn't have the same ability to convey power and drive to my ears. So, for me, the IE8's are tops. Now, add the Turbines to the mix. I've said before that I really like their sound, especially considering their price point. I did hear a little weirdness in the treble with stock tips, but Sony silicone EX tips really open up the treble and make it more natural. It's one of the more dramatic transformations I've heard with just a simple tip change. They're pretty darn close to the IE8's now once the tips are changed out, almost as I like to say the IE8's 'little brother'. Of course they still fall short in soundstage and ultimate refinement, but they're an admirable entry into the market.

As for comparing to the W3's, I would be inclined to agree with you that for me the Turbines would probably even closer overall to them (though I don't have the W3's on hand for a direct comparison anymore). But then again it's more like apples to oranges here because of the nature of the BA vs. Dynamic difference.

 

[tstarn06]

As you note, a simple tip change can result in a dramatic change. The same is true for the W3s, in fact. Without a simple tip change I certainly would prefer the IE8s (or even the Turbines for that matter), but I found some tips that eliminate sibilance (and boosted clarity, soundstage, etc), and when that happened, the W3s ran over the IE8s and Turbines to my ears. If you notice, while he says he has not made a specific decision yet, Ed Ng, in his UM3X vs. W3 comparison thread, says if he were going to sell off any of the top-tier IEMs he owns right now, it would be the IE8s. That is with UM56 sleeves for the Westone and ACS sleeves with the IE8s. He says he will wait longer to decide, but right now, that's what he says. I was in the same position (trying three IEMs), and sold the IE8s and the Turbines.

 

[cn11]

I read all that too. My point was that I heard it the same way as pdupiano. I don't let numbers and the majority tell me what my ears hear. End of story.

 

[pdupiano]

Guys I think this is the main reason why I made my first post regarding the issue. First I was surprised that the thread even exists. I mean with most threads here, people seem to just compare highend v high end and something like this, let alone a monster brand iem... is just staggering (I'm not knocking down monster -trust me I'm a big fan of the turbines at this point -I'm just really surprised that people have taken a real liking to them).

And I felt that statements saying they were completely outclassed by the W3's was a bit misleading. In a lot of ways, cn11 is right in that we are comparing two different types (BA v dynamic) but I think my argument still stands that since the Turbines are close to the IE8's, and most headfiers agree that the W3's do not outclass the IE8's then the W3's do not outclass the turbines.

I would certainly agree that the W3's and the IE8's outperform the turbines in certain areas, but not by a FAR margin. And in all honesty, Tsarn is right in saying that its a sound signature call. I mean most people tend to prefer the IE8 or the W3's based on their sound preference and I would expect the same is true between the Turbines and W3's. So to get back to the OP's original question, I think that in terms of all the subjective aspects of an iem (sound signature) I dont think the W3's are better or worse than the Turbines... just different. Basically pick between the IE8 and the W3's. If you think you'll prefer the IE8's, ask yourself if the 10% (as I mentioned earlier, this is a number that I use as a reference regarding the lack of bass, soundstage, and refinement of the turbines to the IE8, in reality the number may be closer to 95% from my comparisons but I think 10% is a safer number to use) is worth the extra 150+ over the turbines to buy the IE8's. On the other hand, if you think the W3's are the ones for you... wait a few months and look back on the UM3x.. I'm still waiting for some more info on them. But it looks like some UM3x owners are starting to post some "different" impressions and its starting to get more interesting.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I read all that too. My point was that I heard it the same way as pdupiano. I don't let numbers and the majority tell me what my ears hear. End of story.

What numbers are you talking about? I clearly stated that the reason I sold the IE8s and the Turbines are that my ears told me that the W3s were the better phone for my listening tastes. Nothing to do with the majority, though I would say you belong to a very strong majority when it comes to the IE8s (as rating them as the best universal IEM), yet I see you posted that the UM3X are now on your radar screen as a potential purchase. Numbers and the majority may not tell you what your ears hear, but they certainly have dictated the phones you have purchased. After all, didn't you rebuy the IE8s after reading posts that they were a great IEM (though you apparently didn't hear that greatness the first go-round)? Seems to me your ears were not too reliable when it came to the IE8s until you tried them again, and that willingness to do so was because a majority of owners were really giving them positive play, so you decided that they deserved a second chance. This is a clear case where your ears did not work as advertised.

In the end, we all favor what our ears tell us, but to claim you are not influenced by what the majority says is really doubtful. The Westone UM3X, on balance at least, are getting very good reviews, and I know I saw a post on that thread whereby you said they were interesting to you, indicating you may try them a some point. So you are hardly immune to the majority view on at least trying and buying phones, when that review is positive.

To insinuate that I or (anyone else) decides what phones they prefer to keep only because of "numbers" or a majority view, but you are somehow one who does so based solely on what you hear, is silly. Just the fact that you rebought the IE8s disputes that notion. The majority view clearly convinced you to try them again, even though your ears told you they weren't very good the first time.

As for dynamics and BAs being apples and oranges, maybe. But in the end, I could care less which type I prefer, as long as it sounds great. My favorite IEMs at the moment, the W3s, sound great. The IE8s and Turbines sounded good, not great.

 

[tstarn06]

While I see your point, I think your logic is not necessarily working here. This thread was started by someone new to IEMs who bought the Turbines and isn't really happy on balance, and wanted to know how they compared to the W3s. Three people on this thread owned both the W3s and the Turbines and thought the former were a much better phone. Why isn't that at the very least a baseline indicator of the difference between the two?

Also, there are some W3 owners (I am not alone) who have or had the IE8s and W3s who do think the Westones outclass the Senns. And the opposite is true as well, of course. You have no real empirical evidence to support your statement that "most headfiers agree" that the W3s do not outclass the IE8s. The only ones who can make that judgment/statement are those who have owned both, right? "Most" is simply your view, and not necessarily supported by data.

If you want to use cn11's dictum that his ears tell him what is good and what is not, my ears told me that when I finally got the W3s working as advertised by choosing the right tip (for me), they did outclass the IE8s and the Turbines. Reading your post and cn11's post, neither of you could ever get to that point, because both of you suffered sibilance listening to the W3s. When you or cn11 can listen to the W3s without sibilance (either via tip change or something drastic like the UM56 custom sleeves), then you can critically compare the W3s with the IE8s or the Turbines.

Right now, based on your own admission, that's not the case. So the stretch that the W3s and the IE8s are basically equals, and the Turbines are almost as good as the IE8s, therefore the Turbines are almost as good as the W3s is faulty. Why? Because your assertion that "most" HFers (who have owned both) say that the IE8s and W3s are basically equals is not really supported by any hard data.

If your logic is valid, then you would have to be an idiot to buy the IE8s when the Turbines, which cost as little as $105, would be close enough to match the IR8s (or the W3s) in sound quality. It's just not the case. People buy the IE8s and W3s instead of the Turbines because there is a difference. Is it worth $150+? I think it is, based on what I heard listening to the W3s and the Turbines side by side. As for the IE8s, in a perfect world, where money was no object, I might have kept them too, but alas, I really can only afford one top-tier IEM, and the W3 is it.



Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif Guys I think this is the main reason why I made my first post regarding the issue. First I was surprised that the thread even exists. I mean with most threads here, people seem to just compare highend v high end and something like this, let alone a monster brand iem... is just staggering (I'm not knocking down monster -trust me I'm a big fan of the turbines at this point -I'm just really surprised that people have taken a real liking to them). And I felt that statements saying they were completely outclassed by the W3's was a bit misleading. In a lot of ways, cn11 is right in that we are comparing two different types (BA v dynamic) but I think my argument still stands that since the Turbines are close to the IE8's, and most headfiers agree that the W3's do not outclass the IE8's then the W3's do not outclass the turbines. I would certainly agree that the W3's and the IE8's outperform the turbines in certain areas, but not by a FAR margin. And in all honesty, Tsarn is right in saying that its a sound signature call. I mean most people tend to prefer the IE8 or the W3's based on their sound preference and I would expect the same is true between the Turbines and W3's. So to get back to the OP's original question, I think that in terms of all the subjective aspects of an iem (sound signature) I dont think the W3's are better or worse than the Turbines... just different. Basically pick between the IE8 and the W3's. If you think you'll prefer the IE8's, ask yourself if the 10% (as I mentioned earlier, this is a number that I use as a reference regarding the lack of bass, soundstage, and refinement of the turbines to the IE8, in reality the number may be closer to 95% from my comparisons but I think 10% is a safer number to use) is worth the extra 150+ over the turbines to buy the IE8's. On the other hand, if you think the W3's are the ones for you... wait a few months and look back on the UM3x.. I'm still waiting for some more info on them. But it looks like some UM3x owners are starting to post some "different" impressions and its starting to get more interesting.

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What numbers are you talking about? I clearly stated that the reason I sold the IE8s and the Turbines are that my ears told me that the W3s were the better phone for my listening tastes. Nothing to do with the majority, though I would say you belong to a very strong majority when it comes to the IE8s (as rating them as the best universal IEM), yet I see you posted that the UM3X are now on your radar screen as a potential purchase. Numbers and the majority may not tell you what your ears hear, but they certainly have dictated the phones you have purchased. After all, didn't you rebuy the IE8s after reading posts that they were a great IEM (though you apparently didn't hear that greatness the first go-round)? Seems to me your ears were not too reliable when it came to the IE8s until you tried them again, and that willingness to do so was because a majority of owners were really giving them positive play, so you decided that they deserved a second chance. This is a clear case where your ears work as advertised. In the end, we all favor what our ears tell us, but to claim you are not influenced by what the majority says is really doubtful. The Westone UM3X, on balance at least, are getting very good reviews, and I know I saw a post on that thread whereby you said they were interesting to you, indicating you may try them a some point. So you are hardly immune to the majority view on at least trying and buying phones, when that review is positive. To insinuate that I or (anyone else) decides what phones they prefer to keep only because of "numbers" or a majority view, but you are somehow one does so based on what you hear, is silly. Just the fact that you rebought the IE8s disputes that notion. The majority view clearly convinced you to try them again, even though your ears told you they weren't very good the first time. As for dynamics and BAs being apples and oranges, maybe. But in the end, I could care less which type I prefer, as long as it sounds great. My favorite IEMs at the moment, the W3s, sound great. The IE8s and Turbines sounded good, not great.

What numbers? How about post after post where you make comments about how the ‘vast majority hears this’, or ‘you’re in the vast minority with your point’. That’s the numbers game you play. Why don’t you just say that you’re considering the UM3X’s on your own instead of quoting another member’s plan to move to them?

Here in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Disagree, and leave it at that. So far, 3 people agree that the W3s outperform the Turbines by a decent margin, one doesn't.

So what? Does this invalidate pdupiano’s opinion? (Oh, and better make it two now)

Also regarding my own ears, they have never steered me wrong. If anything, it’s other members’ opinions that have done so. I don’t doubt what I hear in spite of people like you who do their utmost to try and convince me I’m hearing things wrong. I could care less what others think if it doesn’t jive with what I hear. Granted I have bought quite a few earphones based on research and opinions I’ve read, but many times it turns out I don’t like what I’m hearing, and I wind up selling items in FS. I’d say many times I’m actually not in the ‘vast majority’. Can you say that you’ve always been steered right by majority opinions 100% of the time yourself? Have you never sold an earphone out of not being happy with it? Researching things to figure out what you’re interested in trying and then subsequently forming your own opinions about its sound are two entirely different things.

As for my buying the IE8’s again, it had nothing to do with ‘majority’ opinions about sound quality. I simply realized I hadn’t let my pair burn in completely and I decided of my own volition that I wanted to try them another time. I’d appreciate it if you don’t use what you think you know about my reasons for buying them to make your misinformed point. Sure I’m part of a majority which is very happy with the IE8’s, but I don’t go around saying ‘80-some percent of IEM users think they’re the best thing since sliced bread, therefore I'm hearing it correctly and you aren't’. That’s the difference.

 

[pdupiano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif While I see your point, I think your logic is not necessarily working here. This thread was started by someone new to IEMs who bought the Turbines and isn't really happy on balance, and wanted to know how they compared to the W3s. Three people on this thread owned both the W3s and the Turbines and thought the former were a much better phone. Why isn't that at the very least a baseline indicator of the difference between the two?

Because Head-fiers are very susceptible to public opinion. Take for example the handful of people who recommend the UM3x's without having heard them but base their opinions on what they have read. We are also susceptible to the price difference name brand etc... And my comparison is based on what I have used not on some third party comparisons. By comparing the Turbines to IE8 then IE8 to W3's I would have given the comparison a fair shot versus comparing the Turbines to the W3's when I didn't give the W3's their full shot (I fully burned in the IE8's and did direct comparisons between the two -so using my own comparisons versus the Turbines and IE8's made much more sense to me). Lastly aren't you the one who posted in the last post that you don't care about numbers, yet you're using numbers once again?


Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, there are some W3 owners (I am not alone) who have or had the IE8s and W3s who do think the Westones outclass the Senns. And the opposite is true as well, of course. You have no real empirical evidence to support your statement that "most headfiers agree" that the W3s do not outclass the IE8s. The only ones who can make that judgment/statement are those who have owned both, right? "Most" is simply your view, and not necessarily supported by data.

You will always find people who say this and say that about any product. And in terms of the W3's it seems to me that the statements between various users vastly differ from one another. If you decide that my use of "most headfiers" is problematic, then I would say your use of "most headfiers" or any number of headfiers regarding the W3's for that matter is also as problematic because I Can turn around and find a handful of headfiers who would disagree with your claims. Point is we're both making statements about the head-fi community, my basis on the W3's are on the Reviews made by members who have used both the IE8/W3's and have been Happy with the W3's but still admitted the W3's did not outclass the IE8. If you wanna cut out the head-fier comments/feedback well then lets cut them out and talk about the bottom line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you want to use cn11's dictum that his ears tell him what is good and what is not, my ears told me that when I finally got the W3s working as advertised by choosing the right tip (for me), they did outclass the IE8s and the Turbines. Reading your post and cn11's post, neither of you could ever get to that point, because both of you suffered sibilance listening to the W3s. When you or cn11 can listen to the W3s without sibilance (either via tip change or something drastic like the UM56 custom sleeves), then you can critically compare the W3s with the IE8s or the Turbines. Right now, based on your own admission, that's not the case. So the stretch that the W3s and the IE8s are basically equals, and the Turbines are almost as good as the IE8s, therefore the Turbines are almost as good as the W3s is faulty. Why? Because your assertion that "most" HFers (who have owned both) say that the IE8s and W3s are basically equals is not really supported by any hard data. If your logic is valid, then you would have to be an idiot to buy the IE8s when the Turbines, which cost as little as $105, would be close enough to match the IR8s (or the W3s) in sound quality. It's just not the case. People buy the IE8s and W3s instead of the Turbines because there is a difference. Is it worth $150+? I think it is, based on what I heard listening to the W3s and the Turbines side by side. As for the IE8s, in a perfect world, where money was no object, I might have kept them too, but alas, I really can only afford one top-tier IEM, and the W3 is it.

Sorry mate but if you have to cut up tips, and make modifications, NO you haven't gotten the W3's to the point that they were advertised. You have something that is BEYOND what W3 could deliver based on what Westone's research and work they did in packaging and selling the item. If Westone really wanted you to get a sound based on what you are hearing now with your modified tips, then they would have probably modified the tips for you before hand (or at least start making molds and tips for people). Additionally the use of UM56's would also entail that their product (to reach its full potential from your admission) would require custom sleeves. Yes to reach the full potential of a pair of universal IEM's is to get a pair of Custom Sleeves. Sorry that doesn't cut it.

To go back to the OP's question. Yes W3's are better than the Turbines in slight ways (build quality, comfort), but in reality, they are simply different because of their sound signatures. But do the leg work in looking at the differences between the sound signature between the IE8 and W3's (I'd say Turbine versus W3, but that's rare around here, there are quite a few threads regarding the IE8 and W3's with impressions -including W3's with modified tips). If you feel that you would prefer the W3's grab them, but I would say the difference is really more a long the lines of sound preference more than anything else. Or wait a few months for more accurate reviews on the UM3x's or I guess mods to see if they get better.

 

[tstarn06]

Bottom line, pdpiano's opinion is just that, an opinion. My opinion is it's a stretch to make the connection that because the IE8s and the W3s are basically equal (in his view), but different (I do agree with the different part), and the Turbines are 90 percent as good as the IE8s (which I don't believe they are), then the Turbines are 90 percent as good as the W3s. To me, it's faulty logic, and not that simple. I still believe that my ears tell me that the W3s sound more than 10 percent better than the Turbines (and also better than the IE8s). And the same holds true for the Turbines and the IE8s ... the former does not deliver 90 percent SQ of the latter.

I do agree with him that it's about personal preference, of course, but that's true in any and all conversations about headphones, speakers, bitrate, source, on and on and on.

If someone prefers the sound of the Turbines over the IE8s and the W3s (or at least believes them to be so close that the cost difference is not worth it), good for them. They will save some cash.

My view is that the OP, if he gets either the IE8s or the W3s, and is able to obtain a good fit, seal, etc., with either (the IE8s are not perfect in terms of fit either, as several owners complained about the tips that come with the IE8s, including me when I had them), he will prefer them over the Turbines by a wider margin than 10 percent.

As for your decision to rebuy the IE8s despite your ears telling you they didn't sound so hot, it had nothing to do with reading posts about burn-in? Or the majority of IE8s owners raving about the phones on Head-Fi? You just independently decided to do that, out of thin air? Okay, if you say so.

Honestly, when I research a product and it has a high majority approval rating in the form of 90-95 percent or more, I can say 100 percent of the time that product has turned out to be a keeper. In fact, when the numbers are that high, the outliers are usually people who don't know what they are talking about, or got a lemon/bad piece of gear and don't want to return it for a replacement, for whatever reason, and rate it based on that experience. In the case of headphones, it also could be personal preference (mids too forward, not enough bass, etc.,) and that's fine. It's when those same people post saying Phone A stinks, or is crappy, etc., that I tend to point out that they are in the minority. If they post a reasoned, well-informed review, I do not go there because they at least had the decorum to clearly explain their decision not to like a phone in their review.

With headphones, the ratings may not always be so definitive (or even measureable), and sure, I have bought and sold many IEMs, but in most cases, the ones I wound up keeping enjoy very high post numbers regarding positive feedback (ADDIEMS, PFEs) vs. negative feedback. The W3s, due to their finicky fit issue, are an exception to the rule. But I for one am glad I stuck with them all along, based on reading how some members had achieved excellent sound via modding tips, etc. I admit freely that reading others' positive POV on the W3s (not a large majority, either) swayed my decision to keep them, and keep trying to get them to sound their best. If I ever do move to the UM3X, or even the ES3X, etc., it will only be because I believe I can get even more satisfaction than I currently do from the W3s.


Quote:

Originally Posted by cn11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What numbers? How about post after post where you make comments about how the ‘vast majority hears this’, or ‘you’re in the vast minority with your point’. That’s the numbers game you play. Why don’t you just say that you’re considering the UM3X’s on your own instead of quoting another member’s plan to move to them? Here in this thread: So what? Does this invalidate pdupiano’s opinion? (Oh, and better make it two now) Also regarding my own ears, they have never steered me wrong. If anything, it’s other members’ opinions that have done so. I don’t doubt what I hear in spite of people like you who do their utmost to try and convince me I’m hearing things wrong. I could care less what others think if it doesn’t jive with what I hear. Granted I have bought quite a few earphones based on research and opinions I’ve read, but many times it turns out I don’t like what I’m hearing, and I wind up selling items in FS. I’d say many times I’m actually not in the ‘vast majority’. Can you say that you’ve always been steered right by majority opinions 100% of the time yourself? Have you never sold an earphone out of not being happy with it? Researching things to figure out what you’re interested in trying and then subsequently forming your own opinions about its sound are two entirely different things. As for my buying the IE8’s again, it had nothing to do with ‘majority’ opinions about sound quality. I simply realized I hadn’t let my pair burn in completely and I decided of my own volition that I wanted to try them another time. I’d appreciate it if you don’t use what you think you know about my reasons for buying them to make your misinformed point. Sure I’m part of a majority which is very happy with the IE8’s, but I don’t go around saying ‘80-some percent of IEM users think they’re the best thing since sliced bread, therefore I'm hearing it correctly and you aren't’. That’s the difference.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because Head-fiers are very susceptible to public opinion. Take for example the handful of people who recommend the UM3x's without having heard them but base their opinions on what they have read. We are also susceptible to the price difference name brand etc... And my comparison is based on what I have used not on some third party comparisons. By comparing the Turbines to IE8 then IE8 to W3's I would have given the comparison a fair shot versus comparing the Turbines to the W3's when I didn't give the W3's their full shot (I fully burned in the IE8's and did direct comparisons between the two -so using my own comparisons versus the Turbines and IE8's made much more sense to me). Lastly aren't you the one who posted in the last post that you don't care about numbers, yet you're using numbers once again? You will always find people who say this and say that about any product. And in terms of the W3's it seems to me that the statements between various users vastly differ from one another. If you decide that my use of "most headfiers" is problematic, then I would say your use of "most headfiers" or any number of headfiers regarding the W3's for that matter is also as problematic because I Can turn around and find a handful of headfiers who would disagree with your claims. Point is we're both making statements about the head-fi community, my basis on the W3's are on the Reviews made by members who have used both the IE8/W3's and have been Happy with the W3's but still admitted the W3's did not outclass the IE8. If you wanna cut out the head-fier comments/feedback well then lets cut them out and talk about the bottom line. Sorry mate but if you have to cut up tips, and make modifications, NO you haven't gotten the W3's to the point that they were advertised. You have something that is BEYOND what W3 could deliver based on what Westone's research and work they did in packaging and selling the item. If Westone really wanted you to get a sound based on what you are hearing now with your modified tips, then they would have probably modified the tips for you before hand (or at least start making molds and tips for people). Additionally the use of UM56's would also entail that their product (to reach its full potential from your admission) would require custom sleeves. Yes to reach the full potential of a pair of universal IEM's is to get a pair of Custom Sleeves. Sorry that doesn't cut it. To go back to the OP's question. Yes W3's are better than the Turbines in slight ways (build quality, comfort), but in reality, they are simply different because of their sound signatures. But do the leg work in looking at the differences between the sound signature between the IE8 and W3's (I'd say Turbine versus W3, but that's rare around here, there are quite a few threads regarding the IE8 and W3's with impressions -including W3's with modified tips). If you feel that you would prefer the W3's grab them, but I would say the difference is really more a long the lines of sound preference more than anything else. Or wait a few months for more accurate reviews on the UM3x's or I guess mods to see if they get better.

Again, I don't agree that the difference between the W3s and the Turbines are secondary issues like build quality and comfort. To me, the W3s vastly outperform the Turbines, not just based on sound preference, but also on sound quality, detail, bass quality, and more.

So to the OP, I say if you are not all that happy with the Turbines and are looking for better performance, in my opinion, then the W3s are worth it with one caveat: You need to get a proper fit. And the same goes for the Turbines vs. the IE8s. The cost difference is worth it. But if you can't get a proper fit with the Westones, they will not sound $200 better than the Turbines. Same is true of the IE8s.

Just a quick note on the W3 vs. IE8 fit issue. There have been several IE8 owners here, including me, who had to use alternative tips (Sony hybrids, custom sleeves) or create mods (foam under silicone) to get their IE8s to work for them (a good seal in particular). So on that front, the W3s and IE8s definitely are on equal footing.

 

[freeone-j]

When I purchased my W-3s, I was not happy spending $400 for a bad fitting (universal) IEMs. Also, my D-2 and Turbines combo is satisfying to my ears. BTW, Fuze and the X5s are a good combo also!

The End.