[Budgie]

So I guess my question is "So what am I suppose to do about the fact that a handfull of Radical Muslims hate me, my life style, and the entire free world, and want me and evrybody like me dead?"

 

[dngl]

Well, I'd just be appreciative of what I have and do my best to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, I can do very little to rectify the situation, so I'm spending most of my time appreciating what I have. Oh yeah, join Amnesty International.

 

[Neruda]

Quote:

Originally posted by Budgie The death of every American and Jew and free person in the world will not change anything in the middle east. The elimination of Jerusalem from the face of the earth won't make any Muslim's life better. Any foreign policy we change can not remake the middle east into a less harsh enviroment.

yeah, you're right. But like you said, they can't do anything about where they were born. If you were born into a life like theirs, wouldn't you be a little pissed about the fact that there are some people in the world that have our level of wealth? Hell, i'm not defending them. I'm just trying to put myself in their position. Anyone who did what BinLaden did deserves to be dead. dammit to hell, though...I wish that stuff didn't have to happen. I wish no one ever felt as if something like that were necessary.

I have a solution: get rid of all the religions, get rid of all the borders, get rid of all the money, and live in harmony. is that so hard?

:/

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by Budgie So I guess my question is "So what am I suppose to do about the fact that a handfull of Radical Muslims hate me, my life style, and the entire free world, and want me and evrybody like me dead?"

At this point I think the best thing we can do is to be supportive of what our coutry is doing. Like I said before, there's no easy answer to any of this mess.
Peace...

 

[Neruda]

Quote:

Originally posted by kwkarth Like I said before, there's no easy answer to any of this mess.

I totally agree. personally, I'm at a loss. I think though that I agree with what our country (and the other countries siding with us) are doing at this point.

 

[coolvij]

Quote:

If you were born into a life like theirs, wouldn't you be a little pissed about the fact that there are some people in the world that have our level of wealth?

Dude, think about what u'r sayin. Bin Laden and his guys are the bad guys (very crude, blunt terminology - but will suffice). The Afghan ppl - my heart goes out to them - are ****ed over by a government that thinks that a lifestyle of 1,000 years ago should be practiced today.

The people born into the terrible lives no suffering beyond our comprehension - yes, that's true....

but I doubt the same can be said of bin Laden, one of wealthiest ppl in Afghanistan.

He gets his food - I'm SURE of that.....

Do u see what I'm saying?

I think the ppl who ARE DOING these atrocious crimes are complete incarnations of evil.

The starving afghans you and I sympathize with are not.

 

[rickcr42]

So I guess I should walk next door and kill my ****ing neighbor because he is WAY more wealthy than me.In fact,how dare that piece of **** breath the same air as me.****ing rich ****.

GIMME A ****ING BREAK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys are ****ed if you think the fact that some have more than others justifies murder.So ,let me get this straight,you have no money and have not eaten today so........HEY ,I KNOW< LETS ****ING KILL A RICH GUY.THAT WILL MAKE ME FEEL WAY BETTER

Last time I looked no one gave me ****.In fact,I have not worked in three ****ing weeks becuase these pukes caused havoc with several of my customers so $35,000 in bids are on indefinate "hold".My guys are leaving me,they need to eat too-no maybe they should just kill someone,and I have bills too
Guess I need to ****ing shoot someone,then blow thier ****ing house up,car,kill the ****ing goldfish


Sheeesh,no ****ing clue

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by rickcr42 So I guess I should walk next door and kill my neighbor because he is WAY more wealthy than me.In fact,how dare that piece of **** breath the same air as me....

Who did you see condone this sort of behavior besides BinLaden himself?

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

yeah, we're all hypocrits really. I mean, spending thousands to get our music to sound "better", while some people don't have a home and such.

speak for yourself,I have worked since I was 15 FULL TIME

Quote:

I think that you guys are touching on one of the reasons we're so hated in some parts of the world. You're right, we are spoiled. millions of people spend more money than those people will see in their lifetimes on trivial items like shoes or clothes. our country is so wealthy it's almost disgusting.

How about justifying the unjustifyable.Disgusting ? Everything I have I earned myself rather than bitch about what I do not have

Quote:

Is there an absolute right and wrong?

Damn right there is,and muredering innocent people is wrong by any definition

Quote:

and i suppose bin laden who inherited loads of cash isn't spoiled

Nice point.So why is his royal holiness not providing food and clothing instead of guns and bombs ?

Quote:

yeah, you're right. But like you said, they can't do anything about where they were born. If you were born into a life like theirs, wouldn't you be a little pissed about the fact that there are some people in the world that have our level of wealth?

NO ! That is like me (see the above) being pissed at my neighbors,or for that matter anyone that has more than me.What a twisted comment.You do not have to like something but that does not mean you turn to anger,to violence to voice it.

Quote:

I have a solution: get rid of all the religions, get rid of all the borders, get rid of all the money, and live in harmony. is that so hard?

And do what ? That is just something that sounds good.Something from my hippie days."make love not war".Yeah right.The same crew that spouted that was running around rioting and blowing **** up too.And do not try to tell me history,been there man.
The day I see no arguments,no fights,no road rage,that day I think there is a chance for real peace.But people can not even get along sometimes in the same family.An outsider would think some brothers hate each other.BUT MESS WITH A BROTHER ! Some violence will rain down on your ass.Same with nations.We do not always get along but the collective people have been attacked in a cowardly manner.
If these guys are so "BAD" and so PISSED.let them come out into the light and fight like men instead of a bunch of slinking cowards hiding behind women and children

defense rests

 

[dngl]

/me sings "I'm proud to be an American..."

 

[XXhalberstramXX]

Quote:

Nice point.So why is his royal holiness not providing food and clothing instead of guns and bombs ?

he is, and that's why he has so many fanatical supporters.

it's the same situation in Palestine. Fatah and similar groups provide hospitals, food and shelter for people who don't have them. is it any wonder that they get support? If Isreal built them Hospitals instead of buldozing homes, don't you think some of Fatah's support would erode? this is off-topic however.

and NO, rick, i am NOT trying to justify the murder of ANYONE!

oh yeah, a tidbit of info, Fatah and Hizbollah were at one time supported by Isreal. interesting, eh?

 

[rickcr42]

And we supported the Taliban against the Soviets,in fact made them the fighting force/dictatorship they are today.
Though it sucks,the real world dictates choosing to support unsavory regimes to obtain an end goal
"the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
Saddam Hussein is exhibit # 1.
As long as he was willing to do battle against Iran we supported him.When that conflict ended,his usefulness did not outweigh his liabilities so he was dropped .Came back to bite us in the ass.Does anyone other than me remember Iraq hitting one of our fighting ships with an Exocet missle duran that time ? We let it slide.Iraq claimed it was an accident and we let it slide.I thought back then it wasan uneasy alliance and never beleived the launch was anything other than planned.Yes there were casualties.

Back to Bin Laden.He only feeds those willing to follow,selective benefits.The old "carrot and the stick".Food then rifles.
And it is a matter of time before we are going to see the last of him,and those like him.The terror networks really have been allowed to operate without much penelty.Yeah,a hit there,strike back there,but no major determined effort to weed them out and separate them from the rest of the human race.
They went too far this time,the party is over and about damn time.

 

[XXhalberstramXX]

Quote:

Back to Bin Laden.He only feeds those willing to follow,selective benefits.The old "carrot and the stick".Food then rifles. And it is a matter of time before we are going to see the last of him,and those like him.The terror networks really have been allowed to operate without much penelty.Yeah,a hit there,strike back there,but no major determined effort to weed them out and separate them from the rest of the human race.

seems like we agree on some people's motivations for joining bin Laden. lets see if we can build a bit on that.

do you think just weeding them out will do the trick? is it enough to rain down punishment?
It seems to me that as long as the conditions in which terrrorists gained power prevail, there will always be terrorist. meaning, as long as there is famine, opression, etc, and as long as there is a country that is easily demonizable (i don't think there is much that can be done about that) there will always be a bin Laden training people to be fanatical terrorists.
that said, it seems in our best interest to improve the standard of living of afghans, while trying not to invade their culture too much.

comments? response?

 

[thomas]

Yeah, i was just reading a very intersting newspaper article (Globe and Mail in Canada), about the middle class in Pakistan, according to that, it seems that the middle class are very far from fanatics, in fact they're lives are probably not too different from Muslims in North America. Currently they are in control, but only barely, as the majority of the population is in poverty/starving. The poor people need food, and can easily be persuaded into following religious fanatics (who make up tiny fractions of those countries) in exchange for a decent living... I'll quote from that article:

Quote:

So there's the delema that faces Islam's moderate and furtively fun-loving elite: Maintain social stability with good deeds like the millionaire food provider, or watch the mullahs [fanitic religious leaders, like bin ladin] seize the reins.

To me, this seems just like what leaders like Chairman Mao, russian revoluiton, french revolution, etc tried to do- appeal to the lower class by blaming a scapegoat (like the US), to motivate them to fight for their own goals... So i definately think the US must make foreign aid/spreading 'propaganda' to all the lower classes, to tell show them that the west isn't their enemy. It'll definately take more than dropping pouches of food from airplanes. Most of those people are so poor and uneducated that the only real way of reaching them is to help them directly, in person. Once these bombings are over, we should move in humanitarian groups on the ground, at the same time as chasing that SOB. For other Islamic countries, it'll take lots of time and patience, but we really need to make a more direct attempt to applease them, and show them that we're not the enemy.

If you stop the flow of terrorist recruits, or at least slow it down, it will do more than chasing after a few outspoken leaders.

 

[SEK]

My hope is that the U.S.A. and its friends are awakening from a slumber of at least 20 years, because of Bin Lauden and his fascist henchmen's despicable and horrific acts on September 11 on American soil.

I see indications that what is happening so far is more than a simple uniting because of the halo effect of a common enemy. The mood among policy makers and the public seems to be less cynical, more reflective, less reactive, and less likely to latch on to the simplistic nostroms that have increasingly dominated our popular culture since the seventies. A year ago, even a month ago, self maximization was what it was all about. Government was the problem. We were all supposed to arm ourselves and pay for a missle defense shield. Privatization and entrepeneurs were the ulimate solutions to our problems. The public sector was an inefficient, oppressive encumberance, the social contract was market and spin driven. U.S. politics was substantially aloof regarding the strife and turmoil of the world. I'm bizarrely nostalgic for when Reagan, OJ, Ken Starr, the Clintons, Princess Di were public obsessions.

So the towers came down in New York City, a place often reviled by demagogues in the American heartland, and we now are able to appreciate and celebrate the actions and sacrifice of the public sector and the common people of New York and around the country. Giants of the private sector are asking for public assistance. Mr. Bush is doing much better than I thought he would, which is very fortunate for everyone. (Too bad that tax cut went through before the priorities changed.)

So, at this point, I am hopeful for more engaged, informed, and cooperative policies than I could have hoped for on September 11.

Things are definitely more real.