[rickcr42]

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do you think just weeding them out will do the trick? is it enough to rain down punishment?

Good start,beats the **** out of doing nothing.And just because you know there are those willing to rob banks does not mean you stop arresting bank robbers.That is called giving up or worse,apeasement.History has proven that ignoring tyrants will not make them go away,but in fact allows them to build into a thing much more difficult ot get rid of.

And some things you just have to step up and take action.You reach a point where you say "this far but NO MORE".that line has been crossed.If the present action is carried out to a conclusion,at least those considering this type of action in the future will have something to think about.No more free pass.

As for improving the conditions of the downtrodden,cold as it sounds it is not our problem.We can not baby sit the globe.
The united states is the most giving nation on the planet earth,we really do try to do the right thing.
So what do we get in return ? We STILL end up pissing somebody off for some perceived evil deed or the very ones we feed and clothe come back as enemies of the US when grown to manhood.And have you ever heard the expression"you get the government you deserve " ?
Those words are still true to this day.When enough people get tired of being shoved around they change things.At first they obey out of fear,"plowshares against tanks".But even that fear has limits when life is a total **** sandwich.

OH YEAH
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it seems in our best interest to improve the standard of living of afghans, while trying not to invade their culture too much.

Our very presence in the trying to do good means change of some kind,and that would also breed resentment from some quarters.You can't please everyone.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

As for improving the conditions of the downtrodden,cold as it sounds it is not our problem.We can not baby sit the globe.

What about the places where we contributed to those people being "downtrodden"? Honest question.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

What about the places where we contributed to those people being "downtrodden"? Honest question.

we have a moral obligation to help, but i doubt after what we did they would want it. i get the feeling the people who aren't pissed at the us right now are instead pretty jaded about us. this in no way excuses the actions of the MAD DOGS who did 9/11.

as for being spoiled, yes i am. compared to many, i'm a big spoiled baby with all my comforts of home. and i like it that way. when i came to the city 9 years ago i had a duffle bag and a little cash, and the people who was supposed to stay with had rented my room already, so i didn't have anywhere to stay. being homeless sucked. it took a long time and a lot of pain but i made it, am married now with a good job at microsoft. going through the crap i had to i would not recommend to anyone, it has a way of burning through your dreams and hopes. of course what happened to me is nothing compared to having your entire country bombed flat, but it sucked. i don't take anything i fought and worked for for granted anymore, because i know how easy it is to lose it all.

 

[rickcr42]

Tough call BUT,there is a major difference between contributing and causing.Most "sins" of the US were while trying to do the right thing at the time or looking out for the best interest of AMERICANS.And I see nothing wrong with that.I would look out for my family over someone elses every time.You and I both live a standard of living directly related to actions,both good and not so good,by our government.I do not hear a whole lot of bitching when things are going good.

And on a more radical note-I truly in my heart beleive we all owe service to our nation.You reach 18,you serve,no questions asked,you do it ,period.
I am not saying it has to be military service,but service of some kind-peace core,over seas food distribution,building home for victims of disasters,whatever
Far too many enjoy the good life at the expense of others doing all the dirty work.There are words for folks like that but I want to keep this discussion civil.
But my take is,there are many willing to bitch,but not put thier own life on hold for 2 years.That is asking too much.
I call it being selfish,and a tad hypocritical

 

[ai0tron]

Improve the standard of living of afghanis in order to make them less likely to become psycho fanatic terrorists?

I have a better idea, how about we get them all to smoke pot and start preaching love, peace, and happiness?

Lets pawn off our drug culture on Afghanistan, lets get Osama Bin Laden addicted to heroin!!

Let's use the same tactics on them that we/someone use on our own people!!!!! Remember, think different, drop acid and smoke pot!!

Let's get them hooked on Opium like we did the Chinese. You know people who are high on opium don't eat, sleep, or drink water but they stay alive for days on end! Pretty amazing actually. It would certainly remove the urge to terrorize Americans.

Even better let's just whip out the doomsday weapon and put our pathetic human race out of it's misery.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Lets pawn off our drug culture on Afghanistan, lets get Osama Bin Laden addicted to heroin!!

And just where do you think heroin comes from ? These "holy" people have no problem with selling drugs.I wonder what part of the Koran says to become pushers.And there is recent information about that very thing.Drug use is on the rise among the muslim population,a dirty little secret they are not exactly shouting from the rooftops.

 

[XXhalberstramXX]

actually, the taliban has been reported as cracking down on opium poppy production. The rebel northern alliance has lately been productin most of the poppy for opium and herion. and the taliban made this decision for religious reasons against the potential economic benefit.

Aiotron, i'm not sure i see your point. maybe you could spell it out a bit more clearly.

Rick, you'll be happy to know that i fully plan to naturalize within the year and enter into the peace corps after i leave college. i think it sounds like a great idea.

 

[rickcr42]

well to be honest,the drug trade as well as other commerce is controlled by the Taliban.Your information is not correct,propaganda again man.

As for joining the peace corp,godd for you-good service

Update-yes the rickaraptor does his homework

According to the UN,and you can trust the figure or not-your choice-75% of the heroin on the PLANET FRIGGIN EARTH comes from Afghanistan.Now I ask you to think for a moment.Assuming this figure is true,and considereing which force in Afghanistan has the arms,the food,the cash,who do YOU think is responsible for the drug trade ?
If you answer the Northern Alliance then you are beyond my talking to you in any rational discussion.They would have to be brain damaged or dumb to have all the loot aquired from the drug trade and still have nothing.Antiquated weopons,barely enough food and ammo to take the field.
Guess they put it into IRAs for the accumulated interest

 

[XXhalberstramXX]

ok dude. but i just don't know why the New York Times would publish Afghan propoganda. I distinctly remember an article which said "Most opium comes from rebel areas" i may still have the article lying around, i can dig it up if you like.

 

[rickcr42]

Are you serious man ? The "TIMES" is widely known as being a very liberal newspaper and famous for being partisan.They have been known to go as far as 'not reporting' something that goes against thier politics,which is the same thing as lying to the rickster.
If you doubt me,check it out.The evidence is out there for any willing to seek it.But those whos politics or thoughts are in agreement need not ask questions,they just nod thier head and go "I knew it!".
I gather information from as many sources as possible,even from crackpots or those with an axe to grind.I then weigh that evidence,consider the source and that sources track record over time,and throw in my own experience of what I have actually seen or done,then hopefully find the truth,the real "core" of an issue.And then base my actions on that.
The UN on the other hand is made up of not just nations freindly towards the US but nations that actually dislike us.They LOOK for excuses to bash the US at every turn.
A far more valid source in this case.
but far too many people only take information from those that are in total agreement,almost afraid to question for fear they have just possibly been wrong all along.
Called growing up,realizing there "is no santa clause" can be a bitch

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

The "TIMES" is widely known as being a very liberal newspaper and famous for being partisan.They have been known to go as far as 'not reporting' something that goes against thier politics,which is the same thing as lying to the rickster.

C'mon, Rick... the old "Liberal Media" myth?

The Times is one of the best, most objective, papers in the country. It's editorial page has a slight liberal slant (but much more balanced than the conservative editorial page of the Wash Post), but its reporting, like the Post, is top-notch. If you read it daily, you see a pretty good balance of reporting.

In a good newspaper (like the Times or the Post), there is a *big* difference between reporting and the editorial page.

 

[rickcr42]

no myth man , the facts are the facts and pooh poing them only blows smoke.No secret either that the only cable news station that had a different message,and i am talking about the Fox News Network,was shut out of almost every cable TV provider in the nation.
The reason given ?
Only so many alotted channels available so they did not have enough room.Then along came satv,and fox was part of the lineup.Some people got news for the first time that was just thrown out there for digesting without editorial decisions as to "what is the news". The lack of information known is hiding that same information and if a planned event designed to cause a different opinion,then in my book it becomes a lie.Not saying something is no different than saying something that is untrue,all designed to mold opinions .
But I really do not want to go into a political discussion on the Liberal/Moderate/Conservative merits at this time (another time,look out dude),it only distracts from the current topic which is important enough to stand alone.

And BTW-I read several papers daily,with widely varying editorial philosophies,plus bounce from MSNBC to FOX to CNN to CSPAN to PBS.I try to stay well informed and rather than allow one source to form my opinions I gather information and form MY OWN opinion,I am a free thinker and never have I allowed myself to be controlled (the infantry thought they had me in check,just played the game man)

 

[MacDEF]

OK, I concede. If you think Fox News is "unbiased," then the New York Times is indeed flaming liberal

 

[rickcr42]

not unbiased but a toally different point of view,it is called balance.All your info from one source,and i lump just about all the above into one pile (just channel surf back and forth on an average night and they will be clones of each ohter).You MUST have all sides to be able to make an informed decision

And don;t be a wise guy,
nyuck,nyuck,nyuck