[gnomen]

I just checked. There are over 18,000 posts on the Chord TT2 thread (alone) and a total of 315 here on the Weiss thread, with about 2,000 on the dCS Bartok thread. I guess it does not mean anything at all, but the difference is remarkable for products in a similar price range with similar performance claims. Of course, one could say cynically that 17,000 of the Chord posts are from owners trying to solve the RF pollution problems with batteries, cables, ferrites, optical links, earthing solutions etc. etc. None of that here. The Weiss DACs just work. (Although a better power cable does seem to help ... )

 

[chesebert]

Of all the cable upgrades possible, this is the one I find most difficult to understand. I don't doubt your report -- I had a Weiss DAC-202 about ten years ago. I connected a PS Audio Perfect Wave power cord that happened to be spare, and was shocked that I could hear an improvement. I mean, at the other end of the wonderful power cord is the crappy old public electricity supply. So where does the magic happen? And why does it happen to a Weiss device which is otherwise scrupulously engineered against signal polution?

I could understand if there was a full power conditioner unit in between. But just a power cord?

No one knows for sure. I have some guesses, such as potential better shielding, better ground connection, better connectors allowing better contact, etc.

 

[chesebert]

I just checked. There are over 18,000 posts on the Chord TT2 thread (alone) and a total of 315 here on the Weiss thread, with about 2,000 on the dCS Bartok thread. I guess it does not mean anything at all, but the difference is remarkable for products in a similar price range with similar performance claims. Of course, one could say cynically that 17,000 of the Chord posts are from owners trying to solve the RF pollution problems with batteries, cables, ferrites, optical links, earthing solutions etc. etc. None of that here. The Weiss DACs just work. (Although a better power cable does seem to help ... )

For many owners, TT2 and Bartok represent the first time they have heard anything better than their few $ Topping and they are wowed by the sound. Also contributing to the situation is the amount of shilling and marketing Chord and dCS do here and with YTers and influencers. TT2 sounds like it's a $1k machine, and Dave while technically competent is just a better version of Topping and hardly worth half the asking price (why Dave uses a $14 power supply is beyond me). I don't know what's wrong with Bartok, it sounds no better than Lina (less preferable to me) and a far cry from Rossini. I am guessing dCS released Bartok for the "entry-level" audiophiles and people who are into cans.

 

[RobertSM]

Of all the cable upgrades possible, this is the one I find most difficult to understand. I don't doubt your report -- I had a Weiss DAC-202 about ten years ago. I connected a PS Audio Perfect Wave power cord that happened to be spare, and was shocked that I could hear an improvement. I mean, at the other end of the wonderful power cord is the crappy old public electricity supply. So where does the magic happen? And why does it happen to a Weiss device which is otherwise scrupulously engineered against signal polution?

I could understand if there was a full power conditioner unit in between. But just a power cord?

Yes I'm running a Shunyata Research Delta XC from the wall into a Shunyata Hydra Delta D6 power conditioner/distributor. The Shunyata Alpha V2 NR goes from the power conditioner into the Weiss DAC501-4Ch

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[gnomen]

Aha! So it isn’t just the cable?

 

[RobertSM]

Aha! So it isn’t just the cable?

Yes the individual cable does make a big difference. That said, it's a part in the overall cabling and power conditioning I've assembled.

 

[gnomen]

I'm curious as to the source of this data. Was this provided by Weiss?
Given the cost difference between the units, it appears the 204 is a really great value for the money. I certainly love mine.

I corresponded with Daniel Weiss recently and he included these graphs in a paper he linked to his reply.

 

[gnomen]

RobertSM, I priced your Shunyata kit here in the UK and it comes to about 75% of the price of the Weiss 501-2. It makes me wonder if it could be a better investment to purchase the 501-2 + Shunyata power conditioning rather than the Weiss Helios. I know it's so hard to be clear about these things, how much of a difference in total do you believe the Shunyata makes?

 

[RobertSM]

RobertSM, I priced your Shunyata kit here in the UK and it comes to about 75% of the price of the Weiss 501-2. It makes me wonder if it could be a better investment to purchase the 501-2 + Shunyata power conditioning rather than the Weiss Helios. I know it's so hard to be clear about these things, how much of a difference in total do you believe the Shunyata makes?

So I'd say it's gain increases are 10-15% total on the Weiss DAC501-MKII.

But let me also add that this investment in power cords and a power conditioner can be extended to all other areas in your audio rig. I also personally have two different amps plugged into the Shunyata Research Hydra Delta D6. So the benefits are extended into amplification. Honestly it's so hard to put a number on the benefits solely on the DAC as the net results are more of a cohesive system. It's actually an anchor for all your rigs power needs. Lowering the noise floor increases dynamic range.

 

[gnomen]

Thanks Robert (from one Robert to another ... ) I'll see if I can organise a demo in my part of the world.

Cheers, Robert

 

[gnomen]

I had a short audition today of the 501 mk2 and the Helios. Also compared to the dCS Lina and, very briefly, to an original Bartok. It was a short session just to gain some initial impressions so none of the findings are conclusive. And of course it is difficult listening in someone else's system with different speakers, amplifier, room and so on. The overall set up leaned toward being dry and analytical, so it somewhat favoured those DACs which could complement it by being warmer and smoother.

First impressions, the 501 mk2 was very good in all departments, a good all-round performer. The Lina was better by about the amount of the price difference, primarily because of a more full-bodied delivery while still retaining the resolving qualities. On large-scale orchestral passages the Lina had more authority. In complex musical passages the Lina was a tad more 'grainy'. The Helios was clearly better again than the 501 mk2 (and the Lina). In a slightly more forgiving setting it might well be perfect. Per the reviews I have read, the original Bartok provided the smoothness needed in that setup, although it did not surpass the Helios in any respects.

So I am left thinking the Helios needs to be compared to the Bartok Apex over a longer session with more varied material. Ideally in my own system, but I am okay with a second demo before doing that eventually, given today's session was only 2 hours long.

One slight niggle is that the ethernet input of the Helios had failed and we had to connect to the network via a laptop + USB to the Helios. I guess it can happen with any equipment but given the Weiss reputation for robust engineering it was somewhat disappointing that it happened today -- and that neither the dealer nor the Weiss engineer could resolve the problem before the demo despite their best efforts. Clearly a hardware failure requiring repair.

 

[gnomen]

I just want to add to the above post that a day later I am still marvelling at the rock solid instrument placement the Helios achieved. When I replay some of the tunes in my memory I can still 'see' where the instruments were positioned. The degree of clarity this provided was extraordinary.

 

[chesebert]

I have always liked Lina more than Bartok (before the Apex version). Bartok seemed to have gotten away from what dCS does well - smooth, powerful, dynamic, resolving and full sounding. Lina is back to form from the big picture but not resolving enough for this price segment. My problem with Lina is its priced too damn high for the performance.

 

[RobertSM]

When I purchased my 501 MKII in August 2022 Helios hadn't been released. At the moment I'm still very happy with my DAC and I'm committed to it for at least another couple of years. That said I could see myself with a Helios down the road.

The other DAC I heard a few months ago that I really liked was the Rossini apex w/clock. That was special but it comes in at 50k. My 501 MKII is 1/5th that and the Helios is just under half that. At some point one has to really ask themselves is it all worth it. So from my perspective I'll fire up my 501 MKII later this afternoon and I'll have a delightful listening session and be happy.

 

[gnomen]

When I purchased my 501 MKII in August 2022 Helios hadn't been released. At the moment I'm still very happy with my DAC and I'm committed to it for at least another couple of years. That said I could see myself with a Helios down the road.

The other DAC I heard a few months ago that I really liked was the Rossini apex w/clock. That was special but it comes in at 50k. My 501 MKII is 1/5th that and the Helios is just under half that. At some point one has to really ask themselves is it all worth it. So from my perspective I'll fire up my 501 MKII later this afternoon and I'll have a delightful listening session and be happy.

Yes. The Rossini apex/clock has been recommended as the ultimate pairing for my speakers, but ups the ante another 100%. Do I want to listen?
Have not had a chance yet to pitch the Helios against the Bartok Apex, maybe in the next week or two.