[FunkyBassMan]

So assuming the new scaler is (just) within your grasp.. how many of you will blindly, or i should say deafly preorder?

I probably will await an audition.. cause the current scaler can either improve alot(being fed a clean signal) as well degrade(on modern pre processed signals) the sound to my ears.

I expect these opposite ends will be only be further apart.. meaning with the new scaler i will still hardware bypass it with certain music.

But i hope im wrong

I'll certainly want to hear it next to the current M-Scaler. I heard every super high-end DAC at Munich and while they certainly sounded different than M-Dave, I wouldn't say there was any obvious improvement making the massive outlay of $ worth it. The new M-Scaler may be the same. I guess we'll see!

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I'll certainly want to hear it next to the current M-Scaler. I heard every super high-end DAC at Munich and while they certainly sounded different than M-Dave, I wouldn't say there was any obvious improvement making the massive outlay of $ worth it. The new M-Scaler may be the same. I guess we'll see!

That's how I feel about it when I hear these crazy expensive DACs, the only ones I haven't listened to are those Uber expensive DACs from Spain, the Wadax DACs. Aside from that I'm not impressed with dCS, and MSB, to me they sound dull and don't have that impact that Rob's DACs have. It's good for me, because I don't have to spend more.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

That's how I feel about it when I hear these crazy expensive DACs, the only ones I haven't listened to are those Uber expensive DACs from Spain, the Wadax DACs. Aside from that I'm not impressed with dCS, and MSB, to me they sound dull and don't have that impact that Rob's DACs have. It's good for me, because I don't have to spend more.

I spent a lot of time with the Wadax because based on what I'd read, I thought I might come home with one. I also talked to their people a lot and they were very nice. I was planning to go meet up with them in Madrid for a closer listen. But as much as I listened, I couldn't quite get there with their product. The way I'd describe the DAC they were showing is very clear and quiet and precise and purer and less euphonic than say the MSBs, but never very musically engaging (at least to me). None of that "grab you beyond your (or at least my) ability to resist and pull you into the music" M-Dave effect that makes my wife so peeved at me for never leaving my listening space.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I spent a lot of time with the Wadax because based on what I'd read, I thought I might come home with one. I also talked to their people a lot and they were very nice. I was planning to go meet up with them in Madrid for a closer listen. But as much as I listened, I couldn't quite get there with their product. The way I'd describe the DAC they were showing is very clear and quiet and precise and purer and less euphonic than say the MSBs, but never very musically engaging (at least to me). None of that "grab you beyond your (or at least my) ability to resist and pull you into the music" M-Dave effect that makes my wife so peeved at me for never leaving my listening space.

I love this, I'd like to hear more of your experience with Wadax if you don't mind. Can you elaborate further?

 

[Reactcore]

I love this, I'd like to hear more of your experience with Wadax if you don't mind. Can you elaborate further?

These Wadax things are huge..




Ive read they also have an optical data link upgrade like the one i created to battle RF..

 

[FunkyBassMan]

I love this, I'd like to hear more of your experience with Wadax if you don't mind. Can you elaborate further?

Sure. They had a big room in the atrium with all their various devices, all of which look pretty much the same: big, thick left and right towers connected by a horizontal bridge to form a piece you're pretty sure you could never lift. The room was generally pretty full. I feel like they were running two huge Dan D'Agostino amps but I might be mixing that up with the dCS room, as I was pretty much only paying attention to DACs. I don't know what the speakers were but they were extremely impressive.

Soundwise, one thing I will say for the Wadax system is that it managed to make content audible through all the noise of the show. People are always talking in these rooms, and music is blasting from speakers all around the different rooms. So some rooms you go into and you sort of can't hear any detail. That did not feel true in the Wadax room. Somehow or other, I felt like I was getting the full musical experience. So that's probably a good sign for the quality of their gear.

But having spent so much time recording music in studios, I'm attuned more than anything to that "is this making me groove?" or "is this pulling me into its world?" or "am I feeling this singer's heart?" musical experience -- that doesn't really have obvious technical terms to describe it -- than to anything else. I'm not someone who requires perfect frequency response or no noise or even distortion to enjoy music. (Some of my favorite listening devices of all time were the original cassette Walkman, and then the Linn LP12.) I don't know enough about digital audio to claim knowledge of what does makes this happen, but after lots of time with M-Dave, I think at least for me it has something to do with the brain being tricked into the instruments/voices/spaces being real, which makes the brain (which is of course tuned to survival) take the sounds much more seriously. For example, sometimes I'll hear something like the transient attack of a hi-hat or the exact pick on a string of a Telecaster through a Fender Deluxe, something I've heard so many times in the studio, that is so real sounding that it's almost disturbing. I've also noticed that things sound the size they are in real life. Like a lead vocal sounds not like a detached voice but like a head at a microphone, or a snare drum sounds about a foot in diameter. Again (just my WA guess) these are cues that fool the brain into thinking something real is happening and it needs to wake up and pay attention.

I didn't get any of these sensations on the Wadax gear. But again, it was at a show and maybe in the right setting it would show some of those qualities. All I know is I certainly felt no need to spend 6 figures on it. And nor will I on new Chord gear unless it really ups the ante on the same qualities.

Fortunately, I get the sense from what I've heard Rob say that that's exactly what he's going for in gear he designs: that indescribable, irresistible engagement factor. And I believe it, because of all the things he's done, one that maybe blew me away the most is the EQ on the Mojo2. That may be the most musical digital EQ I've ever heard (I've always found digital EQ to push me away from the music rather than pull me in) and it's on a 500€ DAC!

So I'm very excited to hear how far he gets at the high end!

 

[dac64]

I'm also very excited about the new chord dac and mscaler. However I'd not buy them because those crazy days of spending big money on hifi is gone!

What I am doing now is how to optimise my current qutest-mscaler computer music system.

There is a breakthrough for ES76 and beyond,

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/3063-pink-hq-minorityclean/page-251

Together with TC 2.88, music never sounds like before.

And I load my 1.5GB OS to the 32GB RAM, and create a 28GB exFat (not NTFS, very important) RAM space to store the music file for playback, wonderful!

However, there is a trick! I have done something on the music files.

I use wipedisk,

https://www.wipedisk.net/

To format a 28 GB Fat32 partition with 35 passes, have to be 35 passes. And on a external SATA HD not SSD.

Then copy 28 GB music files to the partition, then to the 28GB exFat RAM, very very analogue sound. Brought out the bueaty of mscaler!

Why 35 passes wipedisk? No matter how many times one format a partition, the data is still there. There to POLUTE the music files one copied onto it therefore the music files will never as pure as it is.

It doesn't matter one rip the music using EAC or others, the problem lay on where do you store them. In short, what ripping software is the same because the 35 passes will make all rip files the same.

As for why playback the music from the exFat RAM?

For computer music, speed is the decisive factor!

However, there is a catch for 35 passes wipedisk. The effect fades over time therefore have to re-wipe the partition every three or four weeks.

In short, the pureier data one feeds to the mscaler the pureier music one get!

Updated: wipedisk internal SATA dusk also provided the same effect and much much faster, i.e. ~8 minutes to wipe a 32GB Fat32

 

[Reactcore]

Fortunately, I get the sense from what I've heard Rob say that that's exactly what he's going for in gear he designs: that indescribable, irresistible engagement factor.

What i like and can reason with fully is Rob stays with both feet on the ground. His simplicity approach to the analog audio path to minimise any loss of the signal running through too many components.

But to be able to do this ..in the digital domain going to ocean depths to noiseshape the sound perfectly and be in control of what happends. Tweaking his digital design by using a reality instrument.. trained ears.

Using clever ideas to minimise any polluting by RF like coloured leds not to have a noisy display driver chip or when a display is used (Dave, TT).. drive it by the same FPGA and a switch off function for the same reason.

When i see a huge DAC case stuffed full of pcb's and components specially on the analog section i cant help to think of the signal integrity loss it could have..

 

[audio_1]

These Wadax things are huge..




Ive read they also have an optical data link upgrade like the one i created to battle RF..

Hopefully Rod will incorporate an optical data link in the new Mscaler, that can be used when the Ultima Dac is released. I have been using the Opto DX between the Dave and originally the Blu2 and currently the Mscaler. There is no RF noise or fatigue inducing brightness in my system. MSB, Emm Labs and Wadax are using optical links.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

It'll be interesting to see Rob take on Wadax with the Ultima DAC and super Scaler. Interesting times ahead.

 

[ecwl]

It'll be interesting to see Rob take on Wadax with the Ultima DAC and super Scaler. Interesting times ahead.

In general, I just don’t get/like non-Chord DACs. Like @FunkyBassMan, I listened to Wadax at a show and to me, it just sounds like a super refined DAC chip DAC with great power supply, low jitter clocking so you can high SNR and low noise floor with lots of details except you still have the inherent issue of digital harshness from noise floor modulation and the timing inaccuracy of low tap length upsampling leading to poor transient reconstruction and inaccurate timbre.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

In general, I just don’t get/like non-Chord DACs. Like @FunkyBassMan, I listened to Wadax at a show and to me, it just sounds like a super refined DAC chip DAC with great power supply, low jitter clocking so you can high SNR and low noise floor with lots of details except you still have the inherent issue of digital harshness from noise floor modulation and the timing inaccuracy of low tap length upsampling leading to poor transient reconstruction and inaccurate timbre.

Wow, I also don't care for Non-Rob Watts DACs, I find them all lacking and don't get me engaged.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

@ecwl
@GuiltyRocker

Well said.

I mean I don't not like the other great DACs like the dCS/Wadax. The music is articulated extremely precisely and quietly, to be sure. I just remain emotionally neutral listening to them.

The one exception was, I found the MSB very pleasant to coexist with. The MSB room played a wide selection of genres of music and it all sounded... "sweet" would be a good word. But for me it was a similar sensation to listening to a tube amp; it felt like something euphonic was happening to please your brain, as opposed to the Chord stuff which seems to get out of the way and it's what's going on in the music itself that drives your emotions.

(Note: I'm NOT a diehard Chord fanboy, as I bought the Anni sight unseen based on reviews and my other experience with Chord and hate the thing and can't believe they sell it. Must fit a niche with the Qutest or whatever. Their big amps also leave me "meh".)

 

[GuiltyRocker]

@ecwl
@GuiltyRocker

Well said.

I mean I don't not like the other great DACs like the dCS/Wadax. The music is articulated extremely precisely and quietly, to be sure. I just remain emotionally neutral listening to them.

The one exception was, I found the MSB very pleasant to coexist with. The MSB room played a wide selection of genres of music and it all sounded... "sweet" would be a good word. But for me it was a similar sensation to listening to a tube amp; it felt like something euphonic was happening to please your brain, as opposed to the Chord stuff which seems to get out of the way and it's what's going on in the music itself that drives your emotions.

(Note: I'm NOT a diehard Chord fanboy, as I bought the Anni sight unseen based on reviews and my other experience with Chord and hate the thing and can't believe they sell it. Must fit a niche with the Qutest or whatever. Their big amps also leave me "meh".)

It's similar to what I experienced listening to a Toby Chord amp with the TT-2, I hated it. I do not like Chord Amplifiers, to me the Parasound JC (John Curl) blows them all away, so I'm definitely not a fan boy. All I care about is the Rob Watts DACs, if he were to design elsewhere I'd go with him.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

It's similar to what I experienced listening to a Toby Chord amp with the TT-2, I hated it. I do not like Chord Amplifiers, to me the Parasound JC (John Curl) blows them all away, so I'm definitely not a fan boy. All I care about is the Rob Watts DACs, if he were to design elsewhere I'd go with him.

Thanks for the tip on Parasound. I'll check that out!!