[Triode User]

Thanks for those Ray, most kind

2m BNC cables and assorted ferrites on order !

My 2p is to use far more ferrites than you think you need for Blu2/Dave. Twenty or even thirty clip on ferrites per BNC cables is not ridiculous. I use twenty solid core ferrites on my cables (even for the HMS) and bear in mind that they are more effective than the clip on ones.

 

[Babysnake]

My 2p is to use far more ferrites than you think you need for Blu2/Dave. Twenty or even thirty clip on ferrites per BNC cables is not ridiculous. I use twenty solid core ferrites on my cables (even for the HMS) and bear in mind that they are more effective than the clip on ones.

'Scuse me being dim, but how do you attach non-clip on ferrites to a cable?

As an aside, is it possible to measure the RF rejection characteristics of a USB cable?

 

[514077]

My 2p is to use far more ferrites than you think you need for Blu2/Dave. Twenty or even thirty clip on ferrites per BNC cables is not ridiculous. I use twenty solid core ferrites on my cables (even for the HMS) and bear in mind that they are more effective than the clip on ones.

May I ask a stupid question? I'm gonna anyway: How does one attach solid core ferrites? Bare in mind I've not seen them before.

 

[Triode User]

May I ask a stupid question? I'm gonna anyway: How does one attach solid core ferrites? Bare in mind I've not seen them before.

The solid core ferrites are like a thick walled cylinders with a hole down the middle. You have to thread the cable through them as part of the cable making process before the connectors are fitted. Also the effectiveness of the solid core ferrites is enhanced by being a close/tight fit on the cable. Indeed the close fit may also be one of the reasons why they work with HMS when Rob's earlier trials of clip on ferrites made HMS worse.

 

[Babysnake]

The solid core ferrites are like a thick walled cylinders with a hole down the middle. You have to thread the cable through them as part of the cable making process before the connectors are fitted. Also the effectiveness of the solid core ferrites is enhanced by being a close/tight fit on the cable. Indeed the close fit may also be one of the reasons why they work with HMS when Rob's earlier trials of clip on ferrites made HMS worse.

More being dim on my part .... HMS ?

 

[ecwl]

More being dim on my part .... HMS ?

Hugo M-Scaler

 

[Babysnake]

Hugo M-Scaler

Ooooooooooh I see

Cheers

 

[514077]

The solid core ferrites are like a thick walled cylinders with a hole down the middle. You have to thread the cable through them as part of the cable making process before the connectors are fitted. Also the effectiveness of the solid core ferrites is enhanced by being a close/tight fit on the cable. Indeed the close fit may also be one of the reasons why they work with HMS when Rob's earlier trials of clip on ferrites made HMS worse.

Ah thanks.

 

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

There is something in the back of my mind that Rob said with the new M-Scaler the Ferrite beads are not required? It doesn't bother me personally because I know a couple of cable makers and either will be able to a build a cable with or without if required. For my initial listening it will likely be with ordinary cables - but the GTG listening session will be with the best cables I can get.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Triode User]

Hi Guys

There is something in the back of my mind that Rob said with the new M-Scaler the Ferrite beads are not required? It doesn't bother me personally because I know a couple of cable makers and either will be able to a build a cable with or without if required. For my initial listening it will likely be with ordinary cables - but the GTG listening session will be with the best cables I can get.

Thanks
Bill

Bill, you are correct. RW says ferrites are not needed with the new MScaler but he has also said that doesn't mean there isn't the possibility of optimising to make things a “tad smoother”.

 

[Triode User]

A link to the recent Rob Watts talk at Nintronics in the UK. I thought it might be of interest.

Link here.

 

[Rob Watts]

Hi Rob

A question if I may?

I am a very happy DAVE/Blu2 owner and must take this opportunity to thank you for your engineering skill and efforts in bringing such astonishingly good products to market. However, like many of those posting on this and other similar fora, I am an incurable tinkerer, constantly adding and subtracting cables and assorted boxes in an attempt to reach the mythical Land of Audio Nirvana

In said pursuit I was reading elsewhere (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/chord-blu-mk-ii-digital-cd-transport.22848/reviews#review-19675) detailed listening tests and comments regarding the problem of RF interference in the signal chain, specifically the benefits of scrupulous "RF hygiene" for the USB input to the Blu2 and digital coax connection between the Blu2 and DAVE

My (multi part) question is then:


1
Do you accept the comments made regarding RF sensitivity of the Blu2/DAVE combo?

2
Is the suggested solution (multiple ferrite chokes on the USB and coax cables) likely to be effective from an engineering PoV?

3
If the answer to 2) is 'yes', are there any downsides to this approach?

4
Are there any alternative strategies for achieving this goal (assuming it is indeed desirable)?

5 (finally!)
Why are 2m coax interconnects preferable (again the post above suggests this recommendation stems from your good self)


My own experience (FWIW) is that my distinctly low-fi Supra USB cable markedly outperforms various 'audiophile' models I have used (Supra >>> Triode Labs > Curious) which *may* be related to RF rejection characteristics, who knows?

Best wishes

Neill

Sure The BNC to BNC connection is RF sensitive; and it's due to the RF noise that the M scaler creates, rather than Dave being sensitive. USB is insensitive to RF, with the listening I have done on my sources. The only time I have heard changes with USB is with audiophile cables that actually create more RF noise, and sound worse. But certified class 2 cables sound the same.

The M scaler, with it's huge amount of processing, does create ground plane noise, which is subjectively worse at 2 GHz or thereabouts. The nature of this noise makes it particularly a problem, as it is weakly signal correlated; and this can interfere with depth perception. Now the BNC OP is galvanically isolated (the grounds are not connected - except by 5pF of capacitance). Unfortunately, it's this 5pF capacitance that couples Dave ground plane to Blu 2 ground plane, so this 2GHz noise can become a current that flows through Dave's ground plane, and back into the mains. By using ferrites, that are at 2 GHz or designed for GHz rejection, increases the impedance, and so the currents are reduced. This is why simple clip-on ferrites ferrites work with Blu 2.

But with the Hugo M scaler, I improved the isolation - in simple terms, put 2 GHz chip ferrites within the BNC driver (plus some other things that are too complex to explain). Now with the M scaler, you will actually degrade the SQ if you use clip on ferrites - but the solid core ferrites do offer a small advantage.

Using longer cables works with both Hugo M scaler and Blu 2; again what is happening is the extra inductance of the ground return increases the impedance and reduces the size of the current in Dave's ground plane. Going longer than 2m does not give any significant benefit - also the cable should not be looped...

 

[dac64]

A link to the recent Rob Watts talk at Nintronics in the UK. I thought it might be of interest.

Link here.

the silver speakers are very nice! how does it sound?

 

[Triode User]

the silver speakers are very nice! how does it sound?

Unfortunately I had to go to a funeral that day so was unable to attend. The video was taken by Terry at www.pursuitperfectsystem.com and I think he may be planning further videos of the day which might cover the actual equipment on show.

 

[Qute Beats]

Sure The BNC to BNC connection is RF sensitive; and it's due to the RF noise that the M scaler creates, rather than Dave being sensitive. USB is insensitive to RF, with the listening I have done on my sources. The only time I have heard changes with USB is with audiophile cables that actually create more RF noise, and sound worse. But certified class 2 cables sound the same.

The M scaler, with it's huge amount of processing, does create ground plane noise, which is subjectively worse at 2 GHz or thereabouts. The nature of this noise makes it particularly a problem, as it is weakly signal correlated; and this can interfere with depth perception. Now the BNC OP is galvanically isolated (the grounds are not connected - except by 5pF of capacitance). Unfortunately, it's this 5pF capacitance that couples Dave ground plane to Blu 2 ground plane, so this 2GHz noise can become a current that flows through Dave's ground plane, and back into the mains. By using ferrites, that are at 2 GHz or designed for GHz rejection, increases the impedance, and so the currents are reduced. This is why simple clip-on ferrites ferrites work with Blu 2.

But with the Hugo M scaler, I improved the isolation - in simple terms, put 2 GHz chip ferrites within the BNC driver (plus some other things that are too complex to explain). Now with the M scaler, you will actually degrade the SQ if you use clip on ferrites - but the solid core ferrites do offer a small advantage.

Using longer cables works with both Hugo M scaler and Blu 2; again what is happening is the extra inductance of the ground return increases the impedance and reduces the size of the current in Dave's ground plane. Going longer than 2m does not give any significant benefit - also the cable should not be looped...

Hi Rob, would your experience with USB cable into M-scaler match going into Qutest (without M-scaler). I bought an AQ entry level cable and found significant benefit over previous (non Chord supplied) USB cable I was using. Can I do better with good quality non-audiophile cable? Thanks.