[GryphonGuy]

for rob i understand blu2 draws heavily on power 10A. taking this into consideration can blu2 be safely plugged into a good power strip alongside a computer, router etc?

if the power strip is always switched on at the socket due to having a router plugged in would blu2 if plugged into this same strip but switched off draw any small or minute amount of current?

is it better to have all devices plugged into one mains strip when considering blu2 or does this not matter due to the isolation on blu 2's bnc? so blu2/pc/hugo2 with one strip using one wall socket and an adjacent second wall socket with a router plugged in as one example. here due to the isolation on blu2's bnc there is no concern regarding ground loops / stray currents using two adjacent wall sockets?

many thanks mk

Wow. Everybody picks that 10A and uses it out of context. The 10A is only at 1V so 10W total consumption in one tiny part of the overall "box". I hope I have understood this current usage correctly.

Regards
GG

 

[musickid]

when using a router/desktop computer/hugo2 plugged in 24/7/blu2/ and you have 2 wall sockets available what then would be the optimal way to arrange this to avoid stray currents and ground loops. obviously the router needs to be on 24/7 and hugo2 would be plugged in 24/7 but not necessarily always on. i thought rob said due to blu2's bnc galv. isol. plugging devices into different wall sockets is ok unless i'm wrong here. the reason i'm asking all of this is because i hope to have this done before the year is out all being well. i also don't fully understand the implications of blu 2's 10A useage and what needs to be done here. triode user warns against plugging in blu2 in any strip shared by other devices. if so what are people doing then. (for peter can you recommend a russ andrews strip suitable for blu2 and also other devices such as a computer etc all to be plugged into the same strip) thanks to all mk

 

[Alcophone]

Just because the FPGA is drawing 10amps doesn't mean the whole device is. If it's indeed 10A at 1V, then it's 0.08333A at 120V, right? Most power strips have a 15A circuit breaker, so not a big deal as far as the whole device is concerned.

 

[rayl]

Just because the FPGA is drawing 10amps doesn't mean the whole device is. If it's indeed 10A at 1V, then it's 0.08333A at 120V, right? Most power strips have a 15A circuit breaker, so not a big deal as far as the whole device is concerned.

From a pure power availability perspective, there is not a worry with almost any audio gear short of amplifiers and certain power conditioners/regen. Other components don't draw enough VA to matter for any mains circuit...

Amplifiers and certain power conditioners/power regen units draw a lot of reactive power, so even though the sum of their wattage may be w/in spec, it's the sum of the VA that determines thow hot the wires get and whether the circuit breaker trips. i.e.this class tends to have a low pf factor, so looking at wattage isn't enough -- You need to look at VA to account for reactive power consumption in addition to actual power.

But all other audio components I've seen, including preamps, are not a worry from a power perspective. Optimizing for noise/interference is another story.

 

[Triode User]

when using a router/desktop computer/hugo2 plugged in 24/7/blu2/ and you have 2 wall sockets available what then would be the optimal way to arrange this to avoid stray currents and ground loops. obviously the router needs to be on 24/7 and hugo2 would be plugged in 24/7 but not necessarily always on. i thought rob said due to blu2's bnc galv. isol. plugging devices into different wall sockets is ok unless i'm wrong here. the reason i'm asking all of this is because i hope to have this done before the year is out all being well. i also don't fully understand the implications of blu 2's 10A useage and what needs to be done here. triode user warns against plugging in blu2 in any strip shared by other devices. if so what are people doing then. (for peter can you recommend a russ andrews strip suitable for blu2 and also other devices such as a computer etc all to be plugged into the same strip) thanks to all mk

No, I was joking about the 10amps. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.

 

[Rob Watts]

Yes although the FPGA is 10 or 12A, it is only at 1V - so power is only a peak of 12W. The mains draw from the M scaler is only 15W or so.

I wouldn't worry about the mains side of things, as it is very well isolated and extensively RF filtered - and this advice applies to Blu 2 and Dave.

 

[musickid]

for Rob,

a point came to my mind that i can't answer. you said that if hugo2 was perfect the addition of blu2 would make no difference to SQ. In practice however there is a big leap forward. when designing dave i understand the mscaler tech could not fit in one box due to power consumption etc to put it simply. but dave is a world renowned cutting edge dac proven by measured performance. however if it were perfect an mscaler would make no difference and we know that not to be true. when dave was being designed and also H2 had the 1M taps been achieved? if the answer is yes does that mean the final dave/H2 to your knowledge had limitations? i assume when H2 was rolled out at around the same time as blu2 1M taps was possible (hence dual coax on H2) so the limitations of H2's performance must have been known in advance. if 1M taps were commercially available as an mscaler for sale when dave was rolled out in 2015 (i'm not sure if they were here) would you have designed dave differently or does business and commercial saleability/profit margins come into play here? so to what degree are performance limitations engineered in? As a design engineer how do you make allowances for business/profit boundaries and the pursuit of absolute excellence in your designs? This notion sounds wrong/odd/ a contradiction in terms to me. thankyou Mk. clarification here will greatly add to my overall understanding.

 

[jayz]

Question for Rob...

From reading your previous posts, I understand we are now at over 99.xyz % of ideal sinc function with the last few decimal points of precision separating the performance of your DAC designs available at different price points. These last decimal points almost seem have an added significance beyond that offered by the linear scale that a whole percentage figure normally represents - if you see what I mean. It is almost as if we would now be interested in focusing at the remaining decimal range 99.xyz - 100% (assume it is finite) with a magnified glass.

From that perspective, would it make more sense now to drop the whole figure (99%) and start using the xyz decimal value as a better representation of ability / conversion capability of a WTA filter DAC?

It is just a figure / scale at the end of the day but to me, it is an interesting way to look at what remains to be done, as well as to what extent further improvement is worth doing realistically.

PS: Feel free to ignore the question if it is heading on a completely tangential path

 

[Rob Watts]

for Rob,

a point came to my mind that i can't answer. you said that if hugo2 was perfect the addition of blu2 would make no difference to SQ. In practice however there is a big leap forward. when designing dave i understand the mscaler tech could not fit in one box due to power consumption etc to put it simply. but dave is a world renowned cutting edge dac proven by measured performance. however if it were perfect an mscaler would make no difference and we know that not to be true. when dave was being designed and also H2 had the 1M taps been achieved? if the answer is yes does that mean the final dave/H2 to your knowledge had limitations? i assume when H2 was rolled out at around the same time as blu2 1M taps was possible (hence dual coax on H2) so the limitations of H2's performance must have been known in advance. if 1M taps were commercially available as an mscaler for sale when dave was rolled out in 2015 (i'm not sure if they were here) would you have designed dave differently or does business and commercial saleability/profit margins come into play here? so to what degree are performance limitations engineered in? As a design engineer how do you make allowances for business/profit boundaries and the pursuit of absolute excellence in your designs? This notion sounds wrong/odd/ a contradiction in terms to me. thankyou Mk. clarification here will greatly add to my overall understanding.

I think you are overthinking this; it is very simple - I do not design to a price point, but to a performance level. And for each design I do the best that components and my knowledge allow.

 

[Rob Watts]

Question for Rob...

From reading your previous posts, I understand we are now at over 99.xyz % of ideal sinc function with the last few decimal points of precision separating the performance of your DAC designs available at different price points. These last decimal points almost seem have an added significance beyond that offered by the linear scale that a whole percentage figure normally represents - if you see what I mean. It is almost as if we would now be interested in focusing at the remaining decimal range 99.xyz - 100% (assume it is finite) with a magnified glass.

From that perspective, would it make more sense now to drop the whole figure (99%) and start using the xyz decimal value as a better representation of ability / conversion capability of a WTA filter DAC?

It is just a figure / scale at the end of the day but to me, it is an interesting way to look at what remains to be done, as well as to what extent further improvement is worth doing realistically.

PS: Feel free to ignore the question if it is heading on a completely tangential path

Actually the % value was from a poster who wanted an actual number! I prefer the metric that says it's accurate (same as ideal sinc function) to so many bits.

But it's all a rather moot point; as it's the SQ consequences that's important, not the numbers - and the ear/brain is certainly not linear (or even log). It's impossible to predict the absolute value of an error against it's SQ - that's where rigorous and careful listening tests come into play.

 

[musickid]

following on i wonder if it would be possible to set up a controlled experiment with 100 candidates each listening to the same piece of music 3 times. once with a delta sigma 'control' dac and the other two instances with a r2r and chord fpga dac. by using an EEG scan it could be observed whether or not chord dacs trigger electromagnetic activity in one part of the brain that the other two dacs do not. if this did happen it could be argued that this was due to the superior ability to resolve timing on a ns level unique to fpga dacs and the manner by which the brain processes such data. i assume hormonal reaction to music must have been studied but that physiological response to timing remains an area in auditory science which is still in its infancy. i'm sure both musicologists//physicists//biologists would be very interested in the results. thanks mk

 

[rrolls]

Improve your DAVE and Wideband combo!

Our BlueDAVE connected directly into our widebanders, Omega, Voxativ and others is a very special team. We enjoy the directness, soundstage, purity of sound and more, even if others still belief, that our 2 watts cannot rock!
I did not think that I could improve them again, but it is now a reality, I have successfully done it. No, it is not my idea, the basics are well known, even nobody seems to apply it. You can try it as well; I will show you the simple experiment. There is a reason that I am writing this here, because when Mr. Watts and Mr. Franks were interested, we would have a very special power Dac soon.
Being a voice coil, an ignition coil or a crossover coil, all coils are current devices, should be driven with current, but all our amplifiers are voltage items, the only exception were the First Watt F1 and F2 by Nelson Pass. This is just for convenience, because when ordinary speakers are driven by current, they respond unpredictably, but it is possible to solve this.
So the speaker always fights against the incoming voltage, must convert it into current.
Now the experiment: Probably you still have the amplifier that you removed from the chain, when you noticed, that it is much better without it. It should be a solid state, 50 Watt+.
At first you check it, I always bring it up with a variac and measure dc, when they had been tucked away for a long time. Then you connect it to Dave and speakers, but you connect a series power resistor between +out and +cable, 10 Watt is enough. This converts your amp a bit into a current amp. The resistor should not be too high at first, not more than 5x speaker impedance, I took 20 Ohm, because I drive my bipolar Omegas parallel, 4 Ohm. For 8 Ohm take about 40 Ohm. There are 2 side effects with this arrangement, because the speaker follows now its impedance: Bass will be louder but worse, not controlled very well, and the highs could be louder, but this can be solved later. Now listen for a few hours, not too loudly, because bass is a bit out of tune. I was lucky with the Omegas. Highs were a bit harsh, but just for an hour, so it must have been something else, and the Omegas have a flat impedance curve there.
To tame the bass, I tried the solution Nelson Pass has given for different drivers. A parallel resistor across the speaker terminal flattens the impedance curve, for Omega single Alnicos start with 30 Ohms, and try different values. By the way, the flagship Omegas are inappropriate, because there is a crossover coil. But with the help of Louis it will be possible. When bass is O.K. again, you can try a higher value for the series resistor, I went up to 40, and decided then to stay with 33 Ohms.
Results: Soundstage opens even more, there is more background information, there is more speed, dynamic and tenderness at the same time. The speakers seem to be happier! This is remarkable, because:
- There is another amp in the chain again, and we remember us saying, less is more!
- I listen now to the same amp again, that I removed months ago!
The explanation: Joe Rasmussen has measured a chassis with current and voltage drive. The distortion values were up to 10db lower with current drive!
Our experiment is not elegant, a lot of power is wasted in the resistor, but for the technically minded, it is possible to convert a voltage amp into a current one, so the output impedance will be even higher, but Nelson Pass told, that there is no need for very high values.
In the future, there is only one possibility to improve this amp:
When the new power dac would have a possibility to convert it into a current amp, we would have an even better solution. Thank you!
Otherwise it makes no sense for me to buy another voltage amp. There is no return!

 

[514077]

following on i wonder if it would be possible to set up a controlled experiment with 100 candidates each listening to the same piece of music 3 times. once with a delta sigma 'control' dac and the other two instances with a r2r and chord fpga dac. by using an EEG scan it could be observed whether or not chord dacs trigger electromagnetic activity in one part of the brain that the other two dacs do not. if this did happen it could be argued that this was due to the superior ability to resolve timing on a ns level unique to fpga dacs and the manner by which the brain processes such data. i assume hormonal reaction to music must have been studied but that physiological response to timing remains is an area in auditory science which is still in its infancy. i'm sure both musicologists//physicists//biologists would be very interested in the results. thanks mk

OT: I'm curious, MK, why you don't use capital letters in your posts? I'm not trying to be mean, and I like your posts. But, when reading them with a speech program, they sound like one unbroken sentence, which makes it harder to interpret. Your use of strictly lower case is the only thing of which I can think. Just wondering; not trying to be rude.

 

[514077]

Improve your DAVE and Wideband combo!

Our BlueDAVE connected directly into our widebanders, Omega, Voxativ and others is a very special team. We enjoy the directness, soundstage, purity of sound and more, even if others still belief, that our 2 watts cannot rock!
I did not think that I could improve them again, but it is now a reality, I have successfully done it. No, it is not my idea, the basics are well known, even nobody seems to apply it. You can try it as well; I will show you the simple experiment. There is a reason that I am writing this here, because when Mr. Watts and Mr. Franks were interested, we would have a very special power Dac soon.
Being a voice coil, an ignition coil or a crossover coil, all coils are current devices, should be driven with current, but all our amplifiers are voltage items, the only exception were the First Watt F1 and F2 by Nelson Pass. This is just for convenience, because when ordinary speakers are driven by current, they respond unpredictably, but it is possible to solve this.
So the speaker always fights against the incoming voltage, must convert it into current.
Now the experiment: Probably you still have the amplifier that you removed from the chain, when you noticed, that it is much better without it. It should be a solid state, 50 Watt+.
At first you check it, I always bring it up with a variac and measure dc, when they had been tucked away for a long time. Then you connect it to Dave and speakers, but you connect a series power resistor between +out and +cable, 10 Watt is enough. This converts your amp a bit into a current amp. The resistor should not be too high at first, not more than 5x speaker impedance, I took 20 Ohm, because I drive my bipolar Omegas parallel, 4 Ohm. For 8 Ohm take about 40 Ohm. There are 2 side effects with this arrangement, because the speaker follows now its impedance: Bass will be louder but worse, not controlled very well, and the highs could be louder, but this can be solved later. Now listen for a few hours, not too loudly, because bass is a bit out of tune. I was lucky with the Omegas. Highs were a bit harsh, but just for an hour, so it must have been something else, and the Omegas have a flat impedance curve there.
To tame the bass, I tried the solution Nelson Pass has given for different drivers. A parallel resistor across the speaker terminal flattens the impedance curve, for Omega single Alnicos start with 30 Ohms, and try different values. By the way, the flagship Omegas are inappropriate, because there is a crossover coil. But with the help of Louis it will be possible. When bass is O.K. again, you can try a higher value for the series resistor, I went up to 40, and decided then to stay with 33 Ohms.
Results: Soundstage opens even more, there is more background information, there is more speed, dynamic and tenderness at the same time. The speakers seem to be happier! This is remarkable, because:
- There is another amp in the chain again, and we remember us saying, less is more!
- I listen now to the same amp again, that I removed months ago!
The explanation: Joe Rasmussen has measured a chassis with current and voltage drive. The distortion values were up to 10db lower with current drive!
Our experiment is not elegant, a lot of power is wasted in the resistor, but for the technically minded, it is possible to convert a voltage amp into a current one, so the output impedance will be even higher, but Nelson Pass told, that there is no need for very high values.
In the future, there is only one possibility to improve this amp:
When the new power dac would have a possibility to convert it into a current amp, we would have an even better solution. Thank you!
Otherwise it makes no sense for me to buy another voltage amp. There is no return!

You could always look at Questyle amps.

 

[rrolls]

You could always look at Questyle amps.

They convert their current into voltage at the output, and they cannot drive a speaker.
Quote: "In the current amplification stage, signals are amplified in current to achieve higher performance, while the input and output stages remain voltage."