Watts Up...?
Sep 16, 2022 at 9:30 AM Post #3,616 of 3,683

Rob Watts

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@Rob Watts I use a DAVE/HMS and a TT2/HMS here as my digital front-ends. But I also highly value vinyl for replay and your continued dissing of it keeps triggering me to want to try and encourage you to revisit vinyl to see the errors of your ways! :D But, I now realise that would be a huge mistake. YOU are digital's best source for great sound from the format. MY only hope for even better sounding digital. So, I've changed my mind - I will never try to convince you that vinyl has something very special to offer, lest I distract you from your digital endeavours. You MUST remain single-mindedly devoted to digital. And so, I will take your vinyl punches on the chin and not be triggered again! :D :D :D Keep up the great work!

Correct - you won't convince me that vinyl has a place for me! Ignoring the fact that vinyl certainly isn't transparent, the clicks and pops drive me nuts. And as I write this I am listening to something new on Qobuz. And I recently added a 1TB SD card on my phone - so I have around 3000 albums just in my pocket. And I can play these files indefinitely without loss or degradation. I have been playing tracks that I haven't heard since I last had vinyl, and my M scaled Hugo2/Dave is just so much more transparent and musically involving than anything I ever had with vinyl.

And of course there is my recent digital recording experiences - the (prototype) new scaler/Dave/Stealth sounded softer, warmer than the original live orchestra - and my M scaler/TT2/B&W803D3 was a lot warmer. That outcome really blew my mind. In December we will be doing another recording session, and I will be trying out some more things.

But yesterday I was with a dealer, and I couldn't believe the number of exotic turntables on sale! But I will never argue with someone about whatever floats their boat - if you find vinyl more musically enjoyable, keep going!
 
Sep 16, 2022 at 9:33 AM Post #3,617 of 3,683

Whazzzup

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Here, here - Robs/Chord DACs really scale well with the quality of music server / source, and I’m pretty sure that a lot of folks haven’t fully optimised this yet. So far, nothing I’ve tried images as realistically as a Chord DAC… ASR measurements don’t appreciate that.
no kidding!! got antipodes audio dsgt before Mscaler was released, with some great cables, and was amazed at how TT scaled...I asked robb about this, i stated your DAC never sounded so great what gives with antipodes? well he didn't answer directly as in 6 months Mscaler was launched and i guess that was the answer. With further antipodes audio models and upgrades TT just gets better and better, unfortunately except for my wallet never felt the need for Mscaler nor any dac upgrade....THX robb
 
Sep 16, 2022 at 10:42 AM Post #3,618 of 3,683

Triode User

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But yesterday I was with a dealer, and I couldn't believe the number of exotic turntables on sale! But I will never argue with someone about whatever floats their boat - if you find vinyl more musically enjoyable, keep going!
Rob, TTs look pretty and they give endless hours of fun fiddling with them! Whats not to like. No need to listen to them obviously!

As it happens one of the reasons my wife says she first went out with me more than 40 years ago was that I had this turntable and she thought it was really cool.

Screenshot 2022-09-16 at 15.36.24.png
 
Sep 16, 2022 at 11:31 AM Post #3,619 of 3,683

Widell

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Rob, TTs look pretty and they give endless hours of fun fiddling with them! Whats not to like. No need to listen to them obviously!

As it happens one of the reasons my wife says she first went out with me more than 40 years ago was that I had this turntable and she thought it was really cool.

Screenshot 2022-09-16 at 15.36.24.png
You still have both? I mean TT and Wife :slight_smile: ...
 
Sep 17, 2022 at 2:45 AM Post #3,620 of 3,683

Triode User

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Sep 27, 2022 at 3:47 AM Post #3,622 of 3,683

jagwap

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I don't have a turntable or vinyl. Never did. But I've worked around some of the best in the industry and designed phono stages and motor drives when I'm not designing other audio gear. I was regularly surprised by the results.

Do turntables sound more accurate than good digital gear? No, they cannot. Can they sound great, and portray the music so well you can enjoy them? Absolutely.

Think about it. Turntables have evolved rather than been designed. Sure the people I worked with were great mechanical engineers, and they put their best knowledge into their turntable designs, but there is very little test equipment available. So when they tested their new designs, they listened to them. Nearly every design decision was decided by ear to to see if it added to the musical experience. With most digital audio equipment people measure it to decide, and hopefully listen. The higher end Hi-Fi industry, many companies do a lot of listening, but often not until the measurements are right. Reasonable, but sometimes options get missed because the measurements were better another way. Not with turntables. (But in the pro audio industry I can tell you, if it isn't acoustic, or m part of the instrument, the measurements are often considered enough.)

So the result is well over 100 years of evolution, where the prime driver in the evolution is musical enjoyment. So this is why I believe turntables sound way better than their measurements say they should.

Rob, keep up the good work. You are helping digital in a similar way, to discover looked over factors that help advance the art.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 4:31 AM Post #3,623 of 3,683

Ards

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Do turntables sound more accurate than good digital gear? No, they cannot.

Rob, keep up the good work. You are helping digital in a similar way, to discover looked over factors that help advance the art.
This is the ongoing contradiction in the vinyl versus digital debate. Vinyl is not perfect, but those that then immediately dismiss it as such are missing a crucial point - *neither* is digital (the theory is fine, but the implementation has practical issues). After decades of listening, it seems to me that the problems with digital do more harm to the final sound than the problems with vinyl do, and this is why some of us still prefer vinyl for replay in terms of sound quality.

But, I also believe that Rob has identified the main digital problem (reconstruction timing) and is making huge strides towards solving it, and so I am optimistic that, thanks to his efforts, my vinyl collection will soon be redundant! :D
 
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Sep 27, 2022 at 5:42 AM Post #3,625 of 3,683

Ards

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I think both of you are right. Digital and analog do have their own problems. Ultimately 'what is the right sound' is probably unanswerable.

Funny example: a digital/optical cartridge in a turntable like DS audio offers.
The DS cartridge is analogue… although, at first glance, it might seem digital.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 7:57 AM Post #3,626 of 3,683

Progisus

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And… most vinyl master cutting heads are driven by digital files.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 8:32 AM Post #3,627 of 3,683

Ards

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And… most vinyl master cutting heads are driven by digital files.
Sadly, yes, most *modern* cutting heads are digital. But in terms of absolute sound quality, let's not ignore the fact that there are still millions of AAA titles in people's collections and on the secondary market to listen to, as well as many contemporary AAA releases. Digital audio is clearly the future, and we are probably witnessing vinyl's last hurrah. My hope is that, by the time I retire my turntable, Rob will have realised all his digital dreams and we can all move forward to the perfect sound forever digital utopia.
 
Sep 29, 2022 at 10:42 AM Post #3,629 of 3,683

musickid

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Hi Rob

With mtt2 driving speakers single ended am i right in saying as long you dont go above +7 on the volume dial everything is fine. So above 7 you get distortion and there is danger in pushing the unit beyond safe limits?
 
Oct 1, 2022 at 5:28 AM Post #3,630 of 3,683

Reactcore

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Hi Rob

With mtt2 driving speakers single ended am i right in saying as long you dont go above +7 on the volume dial everything is fine. So above 7 you get distortion and there is danger in pushing the unit beyond safe limits?

It depends on the speaker impedance
..less ohms makes a heavier load on TT2's OP transistors on a same volume setting.
And not all music comes near 0dB level

Btw i would like to hear speaker direct drived once
 
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