Watts Up...?
Aug 21, 2017 at 1:48 PM Post #316 of 4,673
For the reconstruction filter (the interpolation filter in the DAC) there is only one way of doing it, and that is using an ideal infinite response sinc function - that is if your intention is to perfectly recover the original bandwidth limited analogue signal. Any other type of filter will change the sound by adding uncertainty to the reconstruction of transient timing; and this uncertainty severely damages sound quality. Timing uncertainty due to small tap length filters add a softness, warmth and a bloated bass; some actually like that sound (I do not understand why as it sounds nothing like real un-amplified music) but for sure it is a distortion, or change, from the original.

Now theory has nothing to say about how the signal is bandwidth limited; it simply states there must be zero output above FS/2. Actually, I have designed two decimation filters; one that is linear phase but rings before the impulse; one that is non-linear phase (IIR) but has no pre-ringing. Both filters have attenuation at and above FS/2 of 300 dB, so both meets the requirements of bandwidth limiting in terms of aliasing and sampling theory. I will post blind recordings with the different filters so we can all hear the difference.

I am not sure about your last question, but the decimation filter will actually work at 768 kHz. So I will have three files; 768 kHz, 768 kHz BW limited to 24 kHz using FIR, 768 kHz BW limited to 24 kHz using IIR. All files will be randomly labelled. So what we can hear is only the decimation bandwidth limiting, without the decimation. The only worry I have is that bandwidth limiting itself has a SQ benefit, due to better noise floor modulation because of the absence of HF noise, so I must ensure that Davina itself does not create extra HF noise. This is part of the project's requirements anyway.

Sorry I was a bit unclear, I will try to reformulate the question a bit clearer.

If we assume that:
1) We want to create an analogue to analogue channel that passes a bandwidth limited signal perfectly using an ADC and a DAC
2) We use a DAC that uses a SINC for reconstruction

Then if we input a SINC function (signal) then this is a bandwidth limited signal that should pass without any change through the channel. Then due to that the reconstruction filter is a SINC what we will see on the analogue output is exactly the bandwidth limiting filter in the ADC. Hence the only filter we can use is a SINC otherwise the output will not match the input?
 
Aug 21, 2017 at 2:43 PM Post #317 of 4,673
I am not sure I understand; the only filter that will perfectly reconstruct the sampled data to recover the un-sampled bandwidth limited signal perfectly must, and can only be, a sinc filter; but how we bandwidth limit the analogue signal in the first place does not have to be a sinc filter, it can be anything - so long as there is no output at and above FS/2.
 
Aug 21, 2017 at 3:51 PM Post #318 of 4,673
I will post again once they have settled down and properly run-in and set-up. But I am very happy about the purchase, and heartily recommend the 803 D3.

Rob, what amp are you running with your 803d3's? I have a Classe 2300 paired with my 802d3's (to my ear, extremely close to the 803d3's: http://thingssoimpossible.blogspot.com/2016/10/speaker-quest.html ), but I was very impressed with he Benchmark AHB2 (esp. when run bridged). The DAVE + Benchmark + 802d3 combo seems to be a particularly strong one. So far, I've refrained from upgrading, waiting to see what your digital amp work turns up.

I have had flashes of "wow!" with my DAVE and the 802d3's (still waiting on my Blu), but not the consistent intoxication I get with headphones. I attribute this to placement, since even slight changes in placement has had a remarkable effect with the DAVE. For me, headphones are an indication of what is "gettable" with 2 channel, and it is a slow but steady process to try and approach that.

I'm looking forward to seeing what sort of lift the Blu2 gives to the 2 channel setup, and I am tickled beyond words that your digital amp efforts will be informed by the (sometimes finicky) power requirements of the 803d3's!
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 12:26 AM Post #319 of 4,673
It's one of my designs from the early 1990's - a DPA 200S.

It's unusual in that it featured one of my thick film hybrid amps; this had 0.5 GHz gain bandwidth product and ultra low distortion, with a compound Class A output stage. The amp IMHO is very transparent but smooth. But you are right; no analogue amplifier can match the sound of Dave driving small loudspeakers directly, certainly in terms of sound-stage depth.
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 10:41 AM Post #320 of 4,673
@Rob Watts
I echo @ray-dude 's enthusiasm for your digital amp ...and I am absolutely fascinated by the potential of the Blu2->Dave->DigitalAmp chain where the highest res digital can be EQ'ed in the DigitalAmp just before the conversion to analog. And if you are taking notes ...ideally you can support three-way speakers with up to three outputs from DigitalAmp with a rich digital cross-over and independent EQ on each channel. With this then there is absolutely no compromise and we can ensure all loudspeakers deliver perfectly linear output to accurately portray your perfectly reconstructed source signal. And your 803D3's can be your #1 test ...:slight_smile:
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 1:59 PM Post #321 of 4,673
It's one of my designs from the early 1990's - a DPA 200S.

It's unusual in that it featured one of my thick film hybrid amps; this had 0.5 GHz gain bandwidth product and ultra low distortion, with a compound Class A output stage. The amp IMHO is very transparent but smooth. But you are right; no analogue amplifier can match the sound of Dave driving small loudspeakers directly, certainly in terms of sound-stage depth.

Interesting that the lower power DPA can keep up with the 803d3's. That makes me optimistic for when lower power digital amps come out.

In my experience, the B&W's are fantastically fast and transparent, but they have their quirks with some amps (I suspect they're generating an awkward transient load in some frequency ranges...you can really hear the magic flicker and compress when the amp has trouble keeping up with the speakers). I've always dealt with it by WAY over allocating the power (300W/channel with the Classe, and pretty close to same when running the Benchmark bridged)

I'm looking forward to hearing how your digital amp topology is able to finesse the load signature (and delighted beyond words to hear that you'll have 803d3's to help tune the new designs)
 
Aug 25, 2017 at 2:35 AM Post #322 of 4,673
I am not sure I understand; the only filter that will perfectly reconstruct the sampled data to recover the un-sampled bandwidth limited signal perfectly must, and can only be, a sinc filter; but how we bandwidth limit the analogue signal in the first place does not have to be a sinc filter, it can be anything - so long as there is no output at and above FS/2.

The math-proof that the bandwidth limiting filter needs to be a SINC would be quite easy to set up experimentally once you get the Davina.

Just connect Dave-->Davina-->Dave, input 00000100000.... and check at the analogue output, that should be close to the output you get directly from the Dave if the bandwidth limiting filter is good enough.
 
Sep 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM Post #323 of 4,673
@Rob Watts , @romaz

rww.jpg
This little puppy powers my 98dB Voxativ speakers with phenomenal transparency. I did not think it was possible ...but 1W into 8ohms fills my room with DAC-direct-to-speakers fidelity. And without mains connected to the H2 or Laptop i can get a few hours of moderate volume knowing that i have none of the ground loop, or AC noise issues. Pure bliss for a bargain!! I am now planning to scrap all my kit and cables and go with a similar DAVE solution to get 2W of power. One thing though - without the the external amplifier, i felt it was a bit weak at the low end ...but a low shelf EQ below 180hz fixed everything. I get bass slam combined with so much more low end detail. Alas only with USB since the EQ is done in my JRiver player. So - Rob, nothing that cant be fixed by adding that EQ feature you talked about ...then we'd get higher quality EQ for all inputs (and DSD too!).
 
Sep 5, 2017 at 2:22 PM Post #324 of 4,673
DSD is EQ-free territory (another argument against it). However, I like your minimalistic system. :relaxed:
 
Sep 5, 2017 at 11:28 PM Post #325 of 4,673
@Rob Watts , @romaz


This little puppy powers my 98dB Voxativ speakers with phenomenal transparency. I did not think it was possible ...but 1W into 8ohms fills my room with DAC-direct-to-speakers fidelity. And without mains connected to the H2 or Laptop i can get a few hours of moderate volume knowing that i have none of the ground loop, or AC noise issues. Pure bliss for a bargain!! I am now planning to scrap all my kit and cables and go with a similar DAVE solution to get 2W of power. One thing though - without the the external amplifier, i felt it was a bit weak at the low end ...but a low shelf EQ below 180hz fixed everything. I get bass slam combined with so much more low end detail. Alas only with USB since the EQ is done in my JRiver player. So - Rob, nothing that cant be fixed by adding that EQ feature you talked about ...then we'd get higher quality EQ for all inputs (and DSD too!).

I have Dave powering small speakers direct - and these are 88 dB/1W and for the office they are perfect, plenty of volume. I get better soundstage depth than on my main system...
 
Sep 6, 2017 at 1:04 AM Post #326 of 4,673
I have Dave powering small speakers direct - and these are 88 dB/1W and for the office they are perfect, plenty of volume. I get better soundstage depth than on my main system...

@Rob Watts , I have a question about active subwoofers and I'm sorry if this was asked before.

Say in addition to a pair of sensitive or active stereo speakers off the RCA or balanced output, I also connect a mono active subwoofer to the spare output pair with a stereo summing 'Y' connector...

Would the stereo speakers be compromised?

Thank you!
 
Sep 6, 2017 at 1:38 AM Post #327 of 4,673
It depends upon what you mean by a summing Y connector, as I am not familiar with them. If it is a resistor pair that mixes the stereo signal to mono, then it would be fine, as Hugo 2 or Dave's output impedance is so low, mixing via resistors would be OK.
 
Sep 6, 2017 at 2:14 AM Post #328 of 4,673
It depends upon what you mean by a summing Y connector, as I am not familiar with them. If it is a resistor pair that mixes the stereo signal to mono, then it would be fine, as Hugo 2 or Dave's output impedance is so low, mixing via resistors would be OK.

Say something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-splitter-female-15-24cm-cable/dp/B000BATDZ2

If the balanced and RCA and balanced output circuits are separate, i was hoping to do it without having to buy a resistor/mixer box like this.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SC700CT

Thank you.
 
Sep 6, 2017 at 10:40 AM Post #329 of 4,673
Say something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-splitter-female-15-24cm-cable/dp/B000BATDZ2

If the balanced and RCA and balanced output circuits are separate, i was hoping to do it without having to buy a resistor/mixer box like this.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SC700CT

Thank you.

Hmmm - I checked AQ website, and they don't say very much. The fear is that left and right will be shorted together, in which case you at best will have mono sound and at worst damage Hugo 2 or Dave. The second one looks more like it.
 
Sep 6, 2017 at 12:26 PM Post #330 of 4,673
@Rob Watts , I have a question about active subwoofers and I'm sorry if this was asked before.

Say in addition to a pair of sensitive or active stereo speakers off the RCA or balanced output, I also connect a mono active subwoofer to the spare output pair with a stereo summing 'Y' connector...

Would the stereo speakers be compromised?

Thank you!
The audioquest seems to be a splitter, i.e. if you want to run 1 output to two inputs e.g. biamping.

But are you sure you need any special cable, most sub-woofers has a stereo input and a internal conversion to mono, hence a standard stereo cable is all that is needed?
 

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