[JohnA1]

Ouch! Can't connect 1 and 3 to ground, as that will short the negative output. You need need a cable that just uses pins 1 (gnd) and 2 (pos OP) for connecting to a phono.

Thanks Rob.
Good thing I double-checked eh!
So much for the IEC standards etc. Mind you, Neutrik is not a run-by-night brand, so if they do it this way, I bet most others also do it.

 

[JohnA1]

This cable is for a balanced INPUT converted to RCA i.e. balanced input of an amplifier to receive a single ended sgnal.
and NOT balanced OUTPUT converted to RCA i.e. balanced output of a preamp or DAC to single ended input of an amplifier.
If it makes any sense!

It does, thanks.
Didn't think of that - doh!

 

[alxw0w]

Hi Rob I have a couple of questions regarding overall SQ of our systems. As I want to wrap my head around couple of things.
Lately I had opportunity to listen a couple of headphones amps that measure excellent (according to measurements widely available on the internet).
As I know they use a lot of feedback to achieve such performance. These amps were sounding clean and fast but something was missing. Sound stage was flat as a pancake and music was "lifeless ?" too clinical ? Hence my question:

1. Can negative feedback (global or nested) degrade perception of depth ? If yes, how ? I can only imagine it messes with timing and transients.
1.1 Second part of this question: As I understand correctly your second order analog noise shaper is a kind of negative feedback to correct non linearities in the output stage. Is you approach different to "ordinary" negative feedback ? Or maybe your approach is also degrading timming/transients to some degree ?

and I have one more question
2. We know that your DACS don't have measurable noise floor modulation. But we also know (as you mentioned it couple of times). That they have some noise floor modulation but it's beyond level of measurability. So my quesiton is: are pulse array elements responsible for lower noise floor modulation ? in particular number of them. For example Dave has lower noise floor modulation than TT2 because of more pulse array elements ?

As I'm not an audio engineer some of my questions may be nonsense.
Anyway thanks in advance.

 

[feddar]

Just wanted to say I got a pair of Wave Stratos BNC cables to connect my HMS to the TT2 (I listen with Utopia headphones). I was sceptical, and so it took a while to convince myself to try them out.

The cables sure make quite a difference, I must say I am surprised. The bass is more noticeable, instrument textures are more defined, and highs are softer and more controlled. I find some MQA recordings less annoying (less background screeching, which I hadn’t even noticed before...). The realism (I guess, soundstage) is really awesome.

I am finding most CD quality recordings to be great, depending on recording variability if course. But the CD recordings I loved before now sound like I am in the recording session. Very nice hearing new stuff that I had missed before...

I really wonder if Chord should strongly recommend upgrading the included BNC cables to customers. Some people are likely missing out, like I was, on the musical potential of their system.

 

[Rob Watts]

Hi Rob I have a couple of questions regarding overall SQ of our systems. As I want to wrap my head around couple of things.
Lately I had opportunity to listen a couple of headphones amps that measure excellent (according to measurements widely available on the internet).
As I know they use a lot of feedback to achieve such performance. These amps were sounding clean and fast but something was missing. Sound stage was flat as a pancake and music was "lifeless ?" too clinical ? Hence my question:

1. Can negative feedback (global or nested) degrade perception of depth ? If yes, how ? I can only imagine it messes with timing and transients.
1.1 Second part of this question: As I understand correctly your second order analog noise shaper is a kind of negative feedback to correct non linearities in the output stage. Is you approach different to "ordinary" negative feedback ? Or maybe your approach is also degrading timming/transients to some degree ?

and I have one more question
2. We know that your DACS don't have measurable noise floor modulation. But we also know (as you mentioned it couple of times). That they have some noise floor modulation but it's beyond level of measurability. So my quesiton is: are pulse array elements responsible for lower noise floor modulation ? in particular number of them. For example Dave has lower noise floor modulation than TT2 because of more pulse array elements ?

As I'm not an audio engineer some of my questions may be nonsense.
Anyway thanks in advance.

Good questions - hopefully I can give you good answers!

1. Negative feedback in itself can't degrade depth; in analogue amps this is down to the number of passive components, in particular the number of metal/metal interfaces. I am thinking here of internal component contacts, soldered joints and the connectors and relays in the direct signal path. Each metal to metal interface has impurities and oxides at the interface; these create non-linearities in the uV region - so the resistance increases for small signals, attenuating the value. In mathematical terms it's the same as noise shapers not being able to resolve small signals properly - that is, small signals get attenuated. Fortunately, I can measure this problem using Verilog digital simulation, and then listen to the results. If a -301dB signal has amplitude change or phase shift from 0dB you can hear it; so my digital circuits must be accurate to +/- 0.001dB with phase change of +/- 0.001 degrees before it's passed for use. These ultra small levels would be impossible to measure with analogue test gear. I have been able to measure this issue with power amps when my load resistors crimp connections degraded, this changed the measured distortion - so I had to replace the crimp contacts and switches with soldered connections.

1.1 The approach is different to ordinary feedback. The problem with negative feedback is there is not enough feedback to correct for HF distortion. Low feedback topologies reduce this problem by using localised feedback and smaller global feedback - so the open-loop performance is then better, making HF distortion better - at least in principal. The issue is really about how much gain bandwidth is available at 20kHz. With the best amps, you are looking at only a few MHz gain bandwidth, so there simply isn't much feedback at 20kHz. With the analogue noise shaper approach, I have 20GHz of gain bandwidth at 20kHz for TT2 to eliminate output errors. Dave on the other hand I have 0.5THz - yes that's right Tera Hz!

This approach actually improves the timing of transients, which is why HF distortion is so important to get right.

2. Pulse array in itself does not generate any noise floor modulation, as the residual errors are totally random and not signal dependent. So increasing elements won't change noise floor modulation. No my worry on this is the reference voltage, which is a source of (unmeasurable) noise floor modulation - but with TT2 and Dave I use the lowest possible noise source references to mitigate this issue - the levels are below measurement at 150 pV.

 

[feddar]

On the HMS, I know the colour onthe OP DX button indicates the input sample frequency, but is there a way to tell whether it is in 16 or 24 bit?

 

[mammal]

On the HMS, I know the colour onthe OP DX button indicates the input sample frequency, but is there a way to tell whether it is in 16 or 24 bit?

I am afraid not. Or at least I have not figured out how.

 

[Triode User]

On the HMS, I know the colour onthe OP DX button indicates the input sample frequency, but is there a way to tell whether it is in 16 or 24 bit?

My streamer player states the frequency of the file being sent to the Mscaler as well as the bit depth.

 

[feddar]

My streamer player states the frequency of the file being sent to the Mscaler as well as the bit depth.

Right, but in Android, the data stream often goes through SRC, and gets converted. I’m trying to figure out if the USB Android stream to the HMS is bitperfect or not. Based on the frequency it us, but now I am wondering about the bit depth.

 

[ZappaMan]

Right, but in Android, the data stream often goes through SRC, and gets converted. I’m trying to figure out if the USB Android stream to the HMS is bitperfect or not. Based on the frequency it us, but now I am wondering about the bit depth.

Darko says Android usb audio is always resampled and never bit perfect

 

[Kentajalli]

Darko says Android usb audio is always resampled and never bit perfect

not true!
depends on the player.
USB Audio player and Neutron can send bit perfect out.
within Neutron, I can clearly see what DAC is connected, its capabilities , and while playing, both bit depth and sampling frequency.

 

[feddar]

not true!
depends on the player.
USB Audio player and Neutron can send bit perfect out.
within Neutron, I can clearly see what DAC is connected, its capabilities , and while playing, both bit depth and sampling frequency.

Right, but what sample rate and bit depth are noted on the DAC you are using. That is the only way to reply tell.

Also, I am talking about a player that does not need UAPP to play streaming Hifi.

 

[Kentajalli]

Right, but what sample rate and bit depth are noted on the DAC you are using. That is the only way to reply tell.

Also, I am talking about a player that does not need UAPP to play streaming Hifi.

I can output at will, 16/24/32 bit @ 44.1kHz to 768kHz to mojo.
Mojo only displays sample rate changes - but Neutron clearly shows what bit depth it is outputting.
BTW, while playing, if my phone rings, Neutron can continue playing without interruption - while I answer the phone.
All is evidence, that Neutron is isolated from Androids internal audio mixer.
Indeed I could play another song (with another player) through the speaker.
Don't know about streaming audio, I never done it seriously.

 

[feddar]

I can output at will, 16/24/32 bit @ 44.1kHz to 768kHz to mojo.
Mojo only displays sample rate changes - but Neutron clearly shows what bit depth it is outputting.
BTW, while playing, if my phone rings, Neutron can continue playing without interruption - while I answer the phone.
All is evidence, that Neutron is isolated from Androids internal audio mixer.
Indeed I could play another song (with another player) through the speaker.
Don't know about streaming audio, I never done it seriously.

Interesting. With all the options, I couldn’t figure out how to actually get bitperfect output when I tried it. My Mscaller just showed 44.1.

In any case, I‘m just looking for output from Tidal and Primephonic.

 

[Kentajalli]

Interesting. With all the options, I couldn’t figure out how to actually get bitperfect output when I tried it. My Mscaller just showed 44.1.

In any case, I‘m just looking for output from Tidal and Primephonic.

can not help you with streaming services.
Neutron is second to none, when it comes to options, but the learning curve is also second to none in terms of difficulty .
but once you learn it, it performs really well.