[mbratrud]

I am selling the upgraded Maestro and R-10s I just got due to the uncalculated occurences of near miss accidents involving my children.

But I do not want to be without headphones.

I had the W2002s with a Cary 300SEI / Western Electric 300Bs and while this sytem did not gel (in my opionion) I liked the W2002s so much better than the HD600s that I just dumped the HD600s

Once I sell my other system I think I am going to try and find a Carlo modded Sugden and either the W2002s or the L3000s....I hope I can find close to the satisfatction I got from the Maestro / R-10s.

But I have never heard the L3000s. These phones seem to be very controversial. I have read posts where people flat did not like them and others reporting that the W2002s were better.

Others who have owned both have stated a preference for the L3000s. What is the deal?

Why are these headphones so controversial?

In my case I am less interested in the idea of whether or not the L3000s are WORTH the difference in price of the W2002s and am far more interested in IF they are better and if so why?

Can you help?

Thanks,
Michael

PS - I already searched. I am looking for MORE info. Thanks.

 

[ayt999]

err... YGPM (another one).

 

[Nik]

With the same amount of the L3000 you can buy the Qualia 010, do you not like them? Qualia + Cary 300B may be a very good combo !!!

Best!
Nicola

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nik With the same amount of the L3000 you can buy the Qualia 010,

Koji's site has the L3K's at just over US$2000 shipped. The Qualia's list for US$2600 plus local tax, and I've seen some places selling them for more (over US$3000).

 

[ayt999]

I guess Nik's using the price of the L3000 at audiocubes? they charge a lot more than most places for it, I think near $2500.

the L3000 and 010 are very different in their sound signature so it would also depend on what sound mbratrud wants to have. I assume he's looked around and decided that the L3000 is more to his liking?

 

[mjg]

i honestly dont think u will get with the l3000 what u were with the r10s. I think i'd urge you to try and keep them ? Or u sold them already.

Don't waste many on the l3000s, totally not worth that price tag.

Well u could get a deal on w2002s, i think even at their ridiculous value (so expensive!) u get a much better deal then the 2 grand l3000s!

I have no comments on the qualia, having never heard them. I think i rather have r10s for that much cash (having heard them )

I do think u may like the 650s a whole lot (since u would notice a vast improvement over 600s, especially with a mobius or SD).

 

[raif]

From my admittingly short experience with the w2002 and l3000, I would say that the L3000 are pretty much the w2002, minus the "slowness" of attack. If money is no concern as you say, I would recommend the l3000.

As for l3000 vs r10, only your ears will tell you which is better. At that level of performance, most comparisons boil down to ethereal metaphors, IMO, other than the r10's lightness of bass presence.

 

[TrevorNetwork]

Would people generally consider the W2002 in the "same league" as the R10? Is it merely a flavour difference? Also, has anyone compared the drivers of the L3000 and W2002? Is the perceived sound difference simply in the dampening or such?

 

[bangraman]

I have the W2002 and the HD650. When you don't have a system that gels with the W2002, then the W2002 is in overall terms only very slightly superior to or roughly equivalent to the HD650 + Zu cable, with the superior technicalities of the A-T's being balanced out by the very questionable tonality. When the tone is adjusted to favour the W2002, the HD650 is most definitely outclassed in detail and nuance, with the W2002 presenting a slightly narrower (but better defined) soundstage than the Senns. Certainly in relation to the HD650, I notice no 'slowness'... perhaps the midrange is fooling people.


With that out of the way, I'm sure there are better dynamics than the W2002. Whether the L3000 are it, I couldn't say... but I do notice from the response curve that it would seem to present a more pleasant picture than the W2002, which would mean less source contortions to get a nice tone.


Slightly off topic, but my ideal set-up for the W2002 might be a heavy-duty, high-end and genuinely superior (as opposed to just a nicely milled aluminium case and a lot of expensive components that doesn't actually end up doing a lot) solid-state amp combined with a mastering EQ, either digital/solid-state or tube depending on how I wanted the sound to come out. It would certainly be easier than rebuilding an amp.

 

[mbratrud]

Bangraman,

I've noticed in other posts that you speak of the tonality issue with the W2002s. (Incidentally, I own the HD650s with Moon Audio Silver Dragons so I can use that as a reference point). By tonality are you talking about bright verus dark? If so which is the W2002?

YOu have also spoken about systam matching for the W2002. I have always heard that the Carlo modded Sugden is THE amplifier to drive the W2002 - would you disagree?

I like the fact that the Gilmore Reference which Kuma is selling was designed as an amplifier only - which sounds good to me as my Burmester source has analogue outs which are very good, easily besting my old Levinson 380s into solid state - Do you think the Gilmore Reference is a better choice with the W2002s (than the Sugden)? HOw about with the L3000s?

I have VD Master Series Ics and Nordost Valhalla Ics - the Valhallas causing the midrange to become slightly more forward (compared to the Master Series - through the R-10s) and might ameliorate any midrange recession in the L300s...do you think the L300s are recessed in the midrange and can how can these headphones be properly driven?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[NKT]

In response to Bangraman's post regarding tonality, when I first picked up the w2002 I noticed that reproduced piano sounded a touch "off"--difficult to describe, but having played piano for most of my life I am pretty particular about reproduced piano sound. This was with the w2002 being driven by the built-in headphone amp on the Meridian 551 amplifier.

After I replaced the Meridian with the Cary 300sei, with Tungsol Roundplates, and two Sylvania 6sn7w's, and the soon-to-be upgraded Electroharmonix 300b (replacing them with AVVT very very soon), the sound came together in many ways. Tonality issue was resolved, and midbass impact was dramatically improved as well, not to mention the tremendous SET midrange that comes with the amp.

I'm thinking one of the reasons you didn't like the Cary-w2002 combo was because of the WE's. I'm not sure if the WE's are a good match for these phones, because from what I know about WE's they tend to be a bit bass shy. Depending on the music you listen to, WE+w2002 combo might not have as much impact and punch as these phones are capable of delivering.
Kuma Gilmore might be an interesting combination as well...she still has these available for sale right?

 

[mbratrud]

Thanks NKT...I guess I thought "tonality" implied something different from lacking impact...but perhaps I am wrong.

Bangraman talks about source matching..what charactersitics would one be looking for in a source?

NKT...I was not used to listening to headphones when I got the W2002s and Cary. It sounded very distant to me, as if one was listening down a hallway. You could easily be right about the WEs. I have heard the WEs on 2 channel systems sound really luscious.

 

[ayt999]

I had a few amps in my room a while back (my amps: grace 901, grado HPA1, gilmore balanced reference; gpalmer's amps: modded headmaster, emmeline HR-2; fliz's grado RA1. they were lending me their amps for a week.), and out of those I preferred the balanced reference the best with the L3000 and W2002, but that is just me.

 

[mbratrud]

Nik,

I no longer own the Cary and I kow you like the custom amp Rudi made for your Qualias but I just can't do another custom amp - too time consuming.

So, if I were to rule out a custom made amplifier I don't know where to start with the Qualias...Oh, and no tubes due to the kids factor (which is why I am changing from the R-10s / Maestro which I really like a great deal).

From what I have read the R-10s just cannot rise to their potential with any of the SS amps available so it seems a shame to keep them and miss what I know they can do!

Too, my main concern with the Qualias (since I am sure they are very good) is that I don't want something too clinical. I had Wison Watt/Puppy 6s and while they too had very strong points across the board (and were ruthlessly revealing just the way you like them if I read your posts correctly) I could never get them to make real music, even after several different high end amplifiers and I eventually just gave up.

 

[mbratrud]

Bump...in hopes of more postings!