[cactus_farmer]

A 'W shaped' sound signature would be a headphone that has emphasized bass, mids and highs. A flat sound signature would be a headphone that doesn't have emphasized bass, mids or highs.

Logically, you would think that emphasis on one part of the frequency spectrum is only heard relative to other parts of it, so a flat sound signature headphone should sound the same as a w shaped one with the volume turned down - as emphasizing everything is the same as emphasizing nothing.

For example, you cannot percieve emphasized bass response if all other parts of the frequency response (mids and highs) are equally emphasized. It should just sound... flat.

Yet, intuitively I kind of know they sound different yet don't know why. I have a W shaped headphone (Focal Elex) and a flat headphone (Shure SRH1840). They do not sound the same. The Focal sounds a lot more lively and dynamic, and the Shure sounds, well... flatter and more compressed but you can hear positional information better because of it.

My logic is telling me that if I just turn the volume up, a 'flat' headphone (nothing emphasized) should simply become a 'W shaped' headphone (everything emphasized), but it isn't working like that... Can someone explain why?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Haha I was thinking the same thing as I read your post. Probably, the terms are too vague to be meaningful but I have another take on it. W is pronounced V in most of Europe, so maybe the W signature is really the V signature

At the end of the day I haven't seen any correlation between measurements and listening enjoyment or even sound quality. If anything, people try to go in reverse and justify what they're hearing by pointing to some chart. Really, nobody knows how to measure music or headphones in any meaningful way. Tyll was able to make the charts meaningful only because he correlated them to his ears and other headphones. But looking at charts with no background and no other info? Not much to be learned unless there is some very obvious problem.

 

[Filter500]

W shaped means to me that there are dips in the mid bass and upper mids. It's a V shape with a potentially nasal sounding peak in the mids.

 

[Sefelt103]

Some of the curves I saw for the Elex didn’t seem to be very pronounced ‘W’ curves, a slightly emphasised bass, a peak around 1-2K, then the usual dip in upper midrange before peaks at 5K and above. The Shure SRH1840 seems to follow a very common frequency response that has some bass roll off but is fairly ‘flat’.

My logic is telling me that if I just turn the volume up, a 'flat' headphone (nothing emphasized) should simply become a 'W shaped' headphone (everything emphasized), but it isn't working like that... Can someone explain why?

But wouldn’t that mean that increasing the volume is colouring the sound ?

Yet, intuitively I kind of know they sound different yet don't know why. I have a W shaped headphone (Focal Elex) and a flat headphone (Shure SRH1840). They do not sound the same.

Headphones virtually never sound the same. There are so many parameters for variability that even headphones by a manufacturer of the same model sound different due to manufacturing issues. Never mind two different models by two different manufacturers that have different prices, design, dimensions, earpads, drivers, materials etc. Silent revisions may alter the sound also.
The Shure SRH1840 interests me (I’ve never heard one) in that its distortion measurements are horrendous around 10% THD lowering to 1% at 1Khz, the Elex is certainly a lot better in this regard.

 

[HipHopScribe]

I guess first we would have to agree what "flat" means. I think sometimes people are imagining a frequency response that is a flat line when they describe "flat" headphones, but such a thing doesn't exist. Maybe "flat" means an agreed upon target response, but again there is no agreed upon target response for headphones. "Flat" headphones as described by audiophiles most often seems to mean rolled off bass with emphasis in the upper mids and lower treble, which would explain why people describe headphones like the 1840 or HD 600 as "flat". In that regard a "W" shaped headphone would probably differ from a "flat" headphone by having more emphasis in the upper bass and maybe less rolloff below that, and maybe also more emphasis in higher treble frequencies as well

 

[Redcarmoose]

No because every W shape offers a different “tune” there are a myriad of tunes, infinite really. To say W would be simply a push in the Bass, Mids and Treble would be a gross understatement. Not only that but remember, even though possibly FR is 80% of the reason someone likes a sound signature there is a magnitude of possibility in that last 20%. So to turn down a IEM or Headphone causes massive changes. Beyond the fact that components as far as drivers are not linear in response there is also psychological effect of different volume levels. Also there are physiological effects of different volume levels.

Thus a frequency response curve will actually change at different volumes, due to diver issues. IEMs have a huge issue with volume levels causing a difference in frequency response. This this is noticeable especially when at lower volume the bass is different. Damping factor also is different at different volumes causing the bass to actually seem more clear at higher volume.

So W will be offered in a myriad of treble set ups. And a myriad of upper midrange outputs too. Is it a 5 to 6K dip? Is it a 7K spike, what about from 8K on up? Same as the mids where do the spikes take place, and the bass, where does that take place?

Remember the FR is only just a fraction of the truth. There is decay, there is soundstage and dynamics, what about micro and macro detail that is all outside of the measurement? And on and on....making the difference (even if you could agree on what “FLAT” is) something of confusion. Now let’s talk about flat, there is no such thing. At least we can’t get a full agreement on that either. If you want to call the Harman Curve a representative “flat” that is fine.

But as you can see that is even a can or worms to open. But to say maybe that a Harman Curve with a slight adjustment IS flat, then that is a start.

None the less this is an exercise in futility. Cheers!

 

[Sefelt103]

But wouldn’t that mean that increasing the volume is colouring the sound ?

Forgot, increased volume means more bass, so it’s colouring the sound