null_pointer_us
Head-Fier
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2009
- Posts
- 70
- Likes
- 11
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That's not what I meant, but thanks anyway for the demeaning language and wild accusations. I was referring to the fact that they use their patents and other legal crap including software design decisions (office formats anyone?) to discourage competition from other platforms. This isn't stretching a point; it's a fact. It's explained in the paragraph you just butchered. It's nice that it's changing, but, as I said, it's slow going, and it's certainly not out of fair-mindedness. Microsoft is a business, and when you have a business with many related divisions, they're going to make decisions that make life difficult for the competition. Apple's no different, in this sense.
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An hour to configure VNC on Linux? Are you serious?
Maybe click Applications -> Add/Remove ... and then read a How-To on VNC w/ Linux?
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My distribution isn't misconfigured like that, but whatever.
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No, not really. But, in the midst of your insulting tirade, you did stumble upon one of the fundamental differences between Windows and Linux.
The former is based primarily on closed-source, where every vendor packages against a range of Windows versions/SKUs and includes everything-in-a-package downloads. However, then you end up with conflicts; you have to get all your patches/updates from like 30 different sources, all with their own rules, methods, and caveats. The upside is that everyone can release/access something that will probably just work.
The latter is based primarily on open-source, where every distributor packages against a range of distro versions or maintains compatibility with common distribution conventions and package managers. However, this requires that the package be popular enough to get a package maintainer in one or more of the major distributions or the author packages the software for one or more of the major distributions.
The Linux infrastructure is vastly more sophisticated and powerful, but it won't exceed the Windows ease-of-use (e.g. I can just download something for "Linux" and it will work on my distribution) until the Linux userbase grows significantly. This is one of the things I was referring to, when I said that Linux isn't yet a good consumer OS and that it will take a while to get there.
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Compared to closed source software distributors? Are you serious? You think that because upstream/downstream is one entity and you aren't privy to most of their work/schedules, that the stuff just comes out instantly when you need it? Or are you comparing paid/enterprise support on Windows to volunteer support on Linux? There are business/enterprise support licenses for those that need them.
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Well, duh. Most stuff doesn't require going to the command line. The stuff that does, has to be fixed before it can be considered a good consumer OS replacement for Windows, but then again isn't that something I explained in my previous post, you know, before you got all angry and started crying FUD? What I was talking about, in the bullet points, is stuff that I like. Personally. i.e., the command line interface under Linux is a vast improvement over Windows for those who actually like to use it.
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Um, no. Apples to oranges there. Vista is an operating system. Compiz is a window manager. You need to compare Aero with Compiz. Personally, I think Aero is a bit prettier, and Compiz is a lot more functional. For one thing, you're not limited to a specific set of features, with the only real configuration being to disable them (one at a time if you're lucky). Compiz actually has a plethora of settings and effects, way in excess of what Aero has, which you can configure in very different ways according to the way that you want to work.
To compare Vista's GUI to something in the Linux world, you'd mention Gnome, KDE, or XFCE, for example. XFCE's spartan-ness is about as close as you can come to the barely functional Vista GUI (e.g. taskbar + file manager), but Gnome and KDE are way ahead in productivity. Windows 7 still doesn't have virtual desktops, which is pretty pathetic. There are a variety of products that add functionality like this to the DWM, but they're either half-implemented or do not work well together.
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Not without a license, and even with a license, it won't be permanent without an activation. Nor can you run Windows from its install image, just by plugging it in and booting, then install from that same session. It's quite convenient in both respects.
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The other points you had real experiences, but this is total BS. Getting all the Windows updates, and the drivers, and the driver updates, and the typical necessities (office/web/directx/flash/java/security/etc.) installed takes a heck of a lot longer than an hour and a half. Counting major applications, plus all their patches and updates and fixes which have to be grabbed from tens of different websites, plus the activation and installation (office, programming) etc. Just installing .NET can take up to a half an hour all by itself. Two days of remembering and waiting for stuff to install/reboot, and waiting for all the Vista disk madness to stop in between the various stages, is quite normal. I went through this process a few weeks ago. Ubuntu, two hours tops. A few hundred updates in a few clicks, in a fraction of the time Windows would take, with only one reboot (due to kernel, X, and GTK/Gnome updates)? No problem, no errors. Want to upgrade your OS to a new version? Same process, a few mouse clicks plus a reboot after the system file upgrades.
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Um, no. What I said is that these features were not properly implemented in Vista, and they were never completely fixed (even as of SP2 public RC), but that they worked fine in Windows 7 public beta on the same computer with the same drivers. The specific issues I described are certainly real, and definitely commonly acknowledged (despite the large amount of FUD surrounding Vista), but whatever. If they work for you, they must work for everyone else, right? And anyone who fell through the widely accepted Windows-is-not-cheap-so-everything-must-work-better-and-support-is-always-acceptable bubble is just a Linux troll. That's the impression I got from your post.
| Originally Posted by Arainach /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh come ON. First of all, let me address this:It IS and has been for over a decade. Well, it's ALWAYS been a separate divison, but the line has been quite hard and firm for over a decade. Microsoft's applications don't use any APIs that aren't publicly documented; they have no hidden tricks. This is enforced by the Justice Department. This right here calls out your entire post as FUD, but I might as well analyze the rest. |
That's not what I meant, but thanks anyway for the demeaning language and wild accusations. I was referring to the fact that they use their patents and other legal crap including software design decisions (office formats anyone?) to discourage competition from other platforms. This isn't stretching a point; it's a fact. It's explained in the paragraph you just butchered. It's nice that it's changing, but, as I said, it's slow going, and it's certainly not out of fair-mindedness. Microsoft is a business, and when you have a business with many related divisions, they're going to make decisions that make life difficult for the competition. Apple's no different, in this sense.
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| "Full support"? It takes me at least an hour to configure VNC on Linux; I can enable Remote Desktop on Windows in seconds and it works perfectly the first time.If you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you. |
An hour to configure VNC on Linux? Are you serious?
Maybe click Applications -> Add/Remove ... and then read a How-To on VNC w/ Linux?
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| Better disk management? Because mount points that change each time I plug in my flash drive and are random things like "sda1" are WAY better than drive letters. Riiiight. |
My distribution isn't misconfigured like that, but whatever.
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| And, conversely, if you install anything NOT from that source, you're lucky if it works and doesn't mess with anything. |
No, not really. But, in the midst of your insulting tirade, you did stumble upon one of the fundamental differences between Windows and Linux.
The former is based primarily on closed-source, where every vendor packages against a range of Windows versions/SKUs and includes everything-in-a-package downloads. However, then you end up with conflicts; you have to get all your patches/updates from like 30 different sources, all with their own rules, methods, and caveats. The upside is that everyone can release/access something that will probably just work.
The latter is based primarily on open-source, where every distributor packages against a range of distro versions or maintains compatibility with common distribution conventions and package managers. However, this requires that the package be popular enough to get a package maintainer in one or more of the major distributions or the author packages the software for one or more of the major distributions.
The Linux infrastructure is vastly more sophisticated and powerful, but it won't exceed the Windows ease-of-use (e.g. I can just download something for "Linux" and it will work on my distribution) until the Linux userbase grows significantly. This is one of the things I was referring to, when I said that Linux isn't yet a good consumer OS and that it will take a while to get there.
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| Oh, and this means that you're at someone else's whim for updates and patches. You need that latest security patch released last night? Too bad, better wait a month until it makes it into the Repository. |
Compared to closed source software distributors? Are you serious? You think that because upstream/downstream is one entity and you aren't privy to most of their work/schedules, that the stuff just comes out instantly when you need it? Or are you comparing paid/enterprise support on Windows to volunteer support on Linux? There are business/enterprise support licenses for those that need them.
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| And, conversely, the requirement to go to the command line for a lot of stuff. If an ordinary user has to go to a command line, you've lost. Your interface is no longer friendly. |
Well, duh. Most stuff doesn't require going to the command line. The stuff that does, has to be fixed before it can be considered a good consumer OS replacement for Windows, but then again isn't that something I explained in my previous post, you know, before you got all angry and started crying FUD? What I was talking about, in the bullet points, is stuff that I like. Personally. i.e., the command line interface under Linux is a vast improvement over Windows for those who actually like to use it.
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| Compiz is prettier. Vista is far more productive. |
Um, no. Apples to oranges there. Vista is an operating system. Compiz is a window manager. You need to compare Aero with Compiz. Personally, I think Aero is a bit prettier, and Compiz is a lot more functional. For one thing, you're not limited to a specific set of features, with the only real configuration being to disable them (one at a time if you're lucky). Compiz actually has a plethora of settings and effects, way in excess of what Aero has, which you can configure in very different ways according to the way that you want to work.
To compare Vista's GUI to something in the Linux world, you'd mention Gnome, KDE, or XFCE, for example. XFCE's spartan-ness is about as close as you can come to the barely functional Vista GUI (e.g. taskbar + file manager), but Gnome and KDE are way ahead in productivity. Windows 7 still doesn't have virtual desktops, which is pretty pathetic. There are a variety of products that add functionality like this to the DWM, but they're either half-implemented or do not work well together.
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| What?You can install Vista/7 from a USB drive just fine. |
Not without a license, and even with a license, it won't be permanent without an activation. Nor can you run Windows from its install image, just by plugging it in and booting, then install from that same session. It's quite convenient in both respects.
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| If it takes you 2 days to configure a Vista install, you're doing it wrong. Install is done and I'm booted to a desktop in less than half an hour; I'm fully configured within an additional hour and a half max. |
The other points you had real experiences, but this is total BS. Getting all the Windows updates, and the drivers, and the driver updates, and the typical necessities (office/web/directx/flash/java/security/etc.) installed takes a heck of a lot longer than an hour and a half. Counting major applications, plus all their patches and updates and fixes which have to be grabbed from tens of different websites, plus the activation and installation (office, programming) etc. Just installing .NET can take up to a half an hour all by itself. Two days of remembering and waiting for stuff to install/reboot, and waiting for all the Vista disk madness to stop in between the various stages, is quite normal. I went through this process a few weeks ago. Ubuntu, two hours tops. A few hundred updates in a few clicks, in a fraction of the time Windows would take, with only one reboot (due to kernel, X, and GTK/Gnome updates)? No problem, no errors. Want to upgrade your OS to a new version? Same process, a few mouse clicks plus a reboot after the system file upgrades.
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| Your third paragraph basically sounds like you turned off all of the useful features of Vista and wondered why nothing worked. |
Um, no. What I said is that these features were not properly implemented in Vista, and they were never completely fixed (even as of SP2 public RC), but that they worked fine in Windows 7 public beta on the same computer with the same drivers. The specific issues I described are certainly real, and definitely commonly acknowledged (despite the large amount of FUD surrounding Vista), but whatever. If they work for you, they must work for everyone else, right? And anyone who fell through the widely accepted Windows-is-not-cheap-so-everything-must-work-better-and-support-is-always-acceptable bubble is just a Linux troll. That's the impression I got from your post.
